I didn’t say they went out of business because of not taking cash. I said they lost customers. Big difference. I’m not saying a business can’t survive by being all cash. They certainly can. I’m saying most businesses limit their revenue by being all cash.
Tipping culture is out of hand
- Thread starter 615dawg
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I don’t know. Back when I was doing hotel room service in high school and waiting tables at Old Venice in college, this was a pretty sweet gig. $2.25/hr + $15-20/hr in tips was a hell of a lot better than $5.50/hr working retail. Probably not the best choice for a long term career, but there were plenty worse jobs
It doesn’t limit it. If they’re successful and busy, they can only serve so many. They may have all the business they can do or need. For some smaller restaurants, or those with a specific business model, not taking cards can simplify operations, and thus simplify life in general. You can’t put a price on that.
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No, they closed because the owner retired. She had worked there since she was 5 years old. She wanted to spend more time with her grandkids. Those are the facts, but you are still entitled to your opinions and also your complaints. It was a family operated business for 83 years. Everything comes to an end.
The worst are the strip clubs. You should never buy table dances with a credit card. They charge extra if you do, which is fine. But then the waitress expects to be tipped based on the amount of your total bill, drinks + dances. She claims she has to do extra work keeping track of all the girls' dances, but, really? An extra 20% per dance for bookkeeping?
Then you’re an *******. Indy businesses that do this are giving you the option to avoid the fee if you pay cash instead of just blanket 4-5% cost increase.
The way most processing works is 15 cents per swipe and then 3% of total transaction. So if you’re a $15 check avg food service joint you get hit way harder than say a car service center where every swipe is in the hundreds.
Overall tipping culture has gotten wild and this is coming from someone whose entire career has been in an industry where tipping is part of it. I shouldn’t tip on bottled water at the airport or a plumbing bill I get via quick books. It’s simple, don’t tip in those situations.
That said, there is a reason I get treated great everywhere I go. Generosity matters. Everyone tracks customer data today so a lot of places know you before you walk in. When I go out to eat, I fairly regularly get asked, “are you sure?”. When they ask that, you just made their night. That’s the guy I want to be.
Tipping your barber well is the difference in getting in on a booked day. Tipping servers well gets you better tables on your reservations. Tipping bell hops you won’t touch a bag. You catch my drift.
That said, there is a reason I get treated great everywhere I go. Generosity matters. Everyone tracks customer data today so a lot of places know you before you walk in. When I go out to eat, I fairly regularly get asked, “are you sure?”. When they ask that, you just made their night. That’s the guy I want to be.
Tipping your barber well is the difference in getting in on a booked day. Tipping servers well gets you better tables on your reservations. Tipping bell hops you won’t touch a bag. You catch my drift.
I always thought that “limiting their revenue” by being all-cash was kind of the whole point….if you get my meaning.
ETA: I know nothing about this specific restaurant. Just thought that was generally a perk in the restaurant business if you can pull it off.
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Prior to it closing, I had been eating at Beatty Street for over 30 years. I talked to Mary a few days before she closed. Lack of business had nothing do with it, she was tired of it and sold the property to the strip club across the the street. They hadn't spent a dime on that building since WW2.
They didn’t spend a dime on logistics either. “Here is your food, now carry it all over there and pay for it “Prior to it closing, I had been eating at Beatty Street for over 30 years. I talked to Mary a few days before she closed. Lack of business had nothing do with it, she was tired of it and sold the property to the strip club across the the street. They hadn't spent a dime on that building since WW2.
They did convert the display racks to "counter tables" sometime in the early-mid 2000s, that was about as far as they got "modernizing." The lady who took the money (near the end) was always so pleasant
No doubt a tip based job can work out into your favor. A lot of it is just based on luck of the draw if you are a solid server. You can't control who is at your table and have to cross your fingers. I'm not wired for that. I'd rather have knowns and expectations from an employer and just meet them than hope I have a decent tipper in my section.
It's not about whether to tip or not at an upscale restaurant, it's about to what height do you tip. Also it's about what industry should be compensated through tipping for service or is it just a money grab.
Sit down restaurant and delivery 20. Everything else typically 0 to 10 depending on what took place to get a tip. Places that charge a tip up front I never add additional.
Depends where I am. A regular spot that I frequent, generous tip. They know me and know what I like.
Pick up/carry out, no tip.
Places I go infrequently, depends on service.
Pick up/carry out, no tip.
Places I go infrequently, depends on service.
Credit card fees can range up to 5%. Flight cards and AMEX are the worst, always 3.75 to 5%. Customers do not earn rewards. The fees Businesses pay are where rewards come from. So the more rewards, the higher the fee.
I love cash Customers, but they are less than 10% these days.
I love cash Customers, but they are less than 10% these days.
I'm an ******* because I don't like being charged more for being cashless? Until three years ago, it was against the merchant agreements for Visa/MC/Discover/AMEX to do this. Visa and MC changed their policy and Discover followed. Its still against AMEX policy but they obviously do not enforce it.
Again, its a simple fix. Offer a cash discount. If my bill is $100, instead of charging me $105, give cash customers the opportunity to pay $95. Everyone is happy.
I have stiffed one person in my life and it was for like a $25 tab and they went out of their way to screw us. I'm pretty much a 20% tipper regardless because even when I've had ****** service, I mostly don't know whether it's their fault or the kitchen or whatever. Even when they are bad, I worry whether they are having a ****** day and just need some grace. So I am basically not holding my end of the tipping bargain up because people don't really do a lot better for much better service or worse for ****** service.
I guess it depends on the industry, but plenty of scammers will try to claim their credit card purchase was fraud and the credit card companies are *** holes to deal with. You can have video of the same make and car as their car in the parking lot and video of somebody with their build using the card, but because you can't see the face they'll just charge it back. They know it's not worth it for the business owner to fight to chase down $75 or $100.
But it does reduce the amount of skimming from employees. If you're going to run a lot of cash, you've got to trust your employees. Good inventory management can let you know if there is a big problem, but not sure how tight you can get that for most businesses.
92.8% of my revenue is CC. It costs me 2.25% per order. My average order is $41.83. Cash gets stolen, lost, and damaged. It costs me 45 minutes a day in labor to have cash vs CC only.
My CC processor is Toast. For the fees, they provide me a robust POS system and free online ordering .40% of my orders are online. My POS system is my best employee and provides invaluable information.
I consider the 2.25% a standard cost of doing business. But I also believe it costs me more to handle cash. If you dine in it costs me 4.8% more than carry out. If you are Mormon I don't sell you beer or fountain drinks and you just run my staff ragged refilling your free water. A Parmesan cheese packet costs me $.14 cents. A 3-4 oz portion of ranch is more than $1 after including the cup and lid. You motherf17ers that don't wipe your feet force me to get me rugs washed weekly and some times more....
CC fees are a low and dependable cost of doing business. But maybe a net gain. Now excuse me as I have to go home to count, sort, and fill out a deposit slip for this weekend's cash deposit before wasting a half hour at the bank. Then I have to get change bags for the next few days as I have a standing Monday 11 am appointment with the inevitable ******* who rapes my till but thinks he's doing me a favor by paying cash with a $100 bill for a $13 lunch when we first open.
I may start charging 3% for taking cash.
Meh. If I'm at a restaurant or gas station, I'm getting 3% cash back, so half a percent to avoid carrying cash and be able to easily track my spending? Not the worst thing to spend money on. Something like a tire shop I'm only getting 2% back, and the purchase is probably large enough I'll cut a check. But if they won't take a check, and I'm basically paying an extra 1.5% over my cash back on a $400 purchase, that's $6. I might go get cash to make a point, but if you'll pay $5 to have a pizza delivered, paying $6 to avoid making an extra ATM run isn't crazy depending on how far away the ATM is.
Amongst other places, Jersey Mike’s has a tip selection for 15-18-20% options. GTFO. I order a sandwich. You make the sandwich and hand it to me. Maybe you hand me a bag of chips. I have to get my own drink. My general rule of thumb is if I an eating in the restaurant, and have to do anything myself….take food to the table, fill my own drink, throw my own **** away, etc. then I am not tipping.
My sister worked at a similar place in college, and she said that always told her friends and anyone she knew really to NOT tip because they all made like $7-$8 an hour (in like 2005), and it never made sense to them because essentially they were asking for a handout at a counter-order place. The point she made was “why would anyone tip for the quality of service before they even received said service?”.
Now, on a takeout order from a place that is normally a sit-down full service restaurant, I will still tip a smaller amount than the sit down standard (maybe 10-12%, whatever the nearest whole dollar amount comes out to be), to account for the servers or whoever that make the $2.13/hr but still have to pack and bag the food. But by no means am I tipping anything in the 15-20% range for that, and I will scale it down for large order for my whole family or something because the added amount of work isn’t exactly proportional if its just a single bag of food.
DoorDash is another one that drives me nuts, because the drivers aren’t doing any more work for a $15 order than they are for a $100 order. Either way they just walk into the restaurant, grab the bag, and bring it to me. I’m not doubling, tripling, or quadrupling my tip based on the weight of the bag of food. If you’re a working adult that can drive and walk and carry things, I am assuming a base level of physical fitness that a bag that will generally never weigh more than 6-7 lbs is not a burden to you. Pizza delivery person, same deal. Whether I’m ordering 1 pizza or 3 pizzas, you’re getting a $5 tip.
My sister worked at a similar place in college, and she said that always told her friends and anyone she knew really to NOT tip because they all made like $7-$8 an hour (in like 2005), and it never made sense to them because essentially they were asking for a handout at a counter-order place. The point she made was “why would anyone tip for the quality of service before they even received said service?”.
Now, on a takeout order from a place that is normally a sit-down full service restaurant, I will still tip a smaller amount than the sit down standard (maybe 10-12%, whatever the nearest whole dollar amount comes out to be), to account for the servers or whoever that make the $2.13/hr but still have to pack and bag the food. But by no means am I tipping anything in the 15-20% range for that, and I will scale it down for large order for my whole family or something because the added amount of work isn’t exactly proportional if its just a single bag of food.
DoorDash is another one that drives me nuts, because the drivers aren’t doing any more work for a $15 order than they are for a $100 order. Either way they just walk into the restaurant, grab the bag, and bring it to me. I’m not doubling, tripling, or quadrupling my tip based on the weight of the bag of food. If you’re a working adult that can drive and walk and carry things, I am assuming a base level of physical fitness that a bag that will generally never weigh more than 6-7 lbs is not a burden to you. Pizza delivery person, same deal. Whether I’m ordering 1 pizza or 3 pizzas, you’re getting a $5 tip.
I'm pretty jealous of business owners that do a good bit of cash business. I know it's probably a pain to deal with at times, but they basically cover their day to day living expenses without paying taxes on it. Grocery store, restaurants, clothes, etc. Just restaurants and grocery store would probably around $10k a year in tax savings easy depending on how much salary they recognize.
It's a cost of doing business, which was always built in to the price of goods/services (or should have been, at least, for a competent business). So we were always paying it. But now, businesses can also add it on at time of purchase. So we're paying it twice.
I think it is poor taste to say you make it a point to not do businesses with locally-owned, Indy business who are adjusting to environmental factors out of need. No one is getting rich off cc transaction convenience fees. Big corporations have the buying power to secure “discounts” in the procurement of goods vs your local Indy business.
To each his own but I’ll gladly pay 3% fee at my local hardware store or restaurant in lieu of going to Lowe’s or Outback.
There is a thread on this exact topic from like 2021 on our local “Let’s Talk ____ County” FB page and when several local businesses switched to this practice out of need and several people talked about how they wouldn’t do business with them, greedy, cost of doing business, build it in to pricing, etc… I recall this thread about every 6 months so I can remind myself who the people in my community that aren’t good stewards. Any person, company, or person representing a company who participated in that thread negatively…I’ll never do business, charitable donate, or help any of them in any way because when times were tough, they chose to **** on local businesses publicly.
This is pure misinformed. Let me educate you. Let’s use restaurants specifically. Google the national average profit margins of restaurants (5-10%). When Indy restaurants started switching to this practice in 2021-2022 you had the price of food rapidly increasing. With gov’t money flowing labor rapidly increased. Those already tight margins were decimated. You can’t just raise menu prices every 6 months. So businesses started passing the fee to the consumer but gave patrons the opportunity to skip the fee entirely with cash. It’s actually the honorable thing to do.
Lets extrapolate this is to actual money. The average Dickie’s BBB franchise does $675k. If 65% of that is on card because they offer the 3% cash discount, you’re talking less than $14k a year in “extra” money. Man, I bet that franchiser went straight to the bank with that! Or bought a new oven and fryer. Or hired a part-time counter girl….
Only on Sixpack could we have a mid-thread pissing contest about why a really old niche restaurant closed.
Hell, the self service concessions stands at DWS & Dudy Noble ask for tips.
Oh, look, someone that most likely knows what the 17 they are talking about on the Pack about real restaurant costs.
It's very humorous that you use 65% of patrons using the card for your example. I will guarantee that number is 88-90% AT LEAST these days. This is a cashless society, and getting more so every day.
And let’s not forget about the patrons that walk out on a daily basis as soon as they realize that a place is cash only which I literally did this past weekend in Memphis.
There’s just no way that anyone will ever convince me that a cash only business model is more profitable for a small business in the long run.
When the inevitable day comes when they start a surcharge for using cash you will then that we are doomed.
Data breaches, scams, tech failure, as soon as there’s a fire, or a flood, or internet outage, nobody can spend. It’s not reliable. So do you like the Chinese-style social credit system? And speaking of surcharges, could a cashless society lead to higher surcharges? Do you value freedom? Do you trust the government?
Again it depends on the business model on whether or not it may or may not be built into the price as you say. It can also be viewed as a convenience fee. If it cost the business owner more, and you’re willing to pay for your personal convenience of using a card, then that is freedom working together.
Again, it depends on the business model on whether it was built into the price as you say. And it could also be viewed as a convenience fee. If running a card machine cost the business owner more, and you are willing to pay more for your personal convenience of using your card, then that is freedom working together.
It’s not comical when you consider I said “using a 3% cash discount”. If you didn’t it would be closer to 85%. When you’re clientele knows they can avoid the fee, several do chose that option.
But to humor you, that’ll give the Dickie’s franchiser I used to me example roughly another $4k for the year at 85% card.
Would you feel better if they priced everything at the cc rate and then call it a discount for paying cash?