Venezuela is ...

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Willow Grove Dawg

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We don't have blanket legal authority to just arrest/kill people in foreign countries who we claim are members of terrorist organizations, either. Its a complex legal issue, and "arrest legality" is very much involved.
So Bin Laden? We launched a military action to arrest & execute him that took place inside a friendly country.

I supported the Bin Laden action. These are complex issues & we cannot oversimplify them. Sometimes Congress needs to be informed after the fact to maintain secrecy because there are a lot of competing agendas in Congress.
 
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mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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Democrats had the Epstein files for 4 years…. Don’t you think if it was something really bad about Trump they would have released it?
For me, it really isn't about what is or isn't in those "files" at this point.
So much is redacted and covered up and misrepresented at this point, I don't really know that anything will difinitively be revealed.

For me, the entertainment is hearing the constantly changing narratives for the past year.
- they will be revealed by influencers that have info in packets!
- they are on Bondi's desk waiting for release!
- there are no files and never have been!
- it's all a hoax created by Obama and Biden!
- Trump's name isn't even in the files!
- Trump wants to release what he has the power to release, but will wait for Congress to tell him to release it!
- not all the files can be released by the deadline because somehow there are too many!


It is objectively funny to sit back and watch the insanity.
 

T-TownDawgg

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Nov 4, 2015
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Bullѕhit. "He'll end all of our foreign military entanglements" was one of the key arguments that got Trump elected.
We were already in a "foreign entanglement" with Venezuela for the past decade for all the reasons previously listed in this thread.

China
Drugs cartels
Immigration

This move upends this, at least for a while. That said, I get the uneasiness many feel when it comes to unintended consequences with regime changes.

Now you want to argue those hypotheticals.

Not hypothetical: The facts are, left alone, Maduro was continuously facilitating direct aggressive action that was killing Americans and rolling out the red carpet for increased Chinese aggression.

Let's see what the next 12 months for Venezuela looks like. At the very least, a communist dictator drug kingpin has been removed and a clear message sent to Beijing.
 
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HotMop

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I’m not disputing any of that, but if they don’t have oil or other natural resources we want, we do t really care about their regime. I don’t have a problem with that either.
So...when we did this in Panama it was about what?
 

L4Dawg

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Oct 27, 2016
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-The Venezuelan people celebrating in the streets seem to be happy about it.
- Chavez started this when he seized American assets. Reports are we parked a missile in his mausoleum. Nice.
-China got checked. Cuba is now in a worse position. Mexico is on notice about their coziness with the cartels.
-Instead of wasting fuel and ordnance on our bombing ranges we should strike every drug cartel asset south of the border.
-After wiping out the cartels we need to legalize drugs. Prohibition should have been a major lesson on legislating vices and the rise of the Mob during that time but then again politicians are effing idiots.
-Legalize heroin tomorrow and I still won't use it or any other currently illegal drug. Legalize it, regulate and tax the **** out of it.
-Stabilize Venezuela's oil industry and economy and their people who were forced to flee will move back.
There have been few if any celebrations in the streets. The reports say most streets are deserted except for military checkpoints. We got Maduro, but it looks like the regime is still there so far.
 

thatsbaseball

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May 29, 2007
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We don't have blanket legal authority to just arrest/kill people in foreign countries who we claim are members of terrorist organizations, either. Its a complex legal issue, and "arrest legality" is very much involved.
I don't think the end result that we're seeking is to "arrest/kill" Maduro, it's facilitate a regime change and there's never been a nice, neat way to do that. We'll detain him long enough for the new group to start purging the old group and then turn him over to the new group and let them "arrest/kill" him .
 

johnson86-1

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Whatever power Trump takes, the next president will have it too. And there will be someone from the other side at some point. Everybody okay with President AOC having the same amount of power? If you are cheering for the way he is going about getting stuff done, then you better be
I think that’d be a good discussion to have. Ideally decades ago. But I’m not sure how much of an expansion this is? The bringing him in alive is I guess. But we just decided to take Gadaffi out not that long ago. Depending on how sure we are that Madurai lost the last election, I could see an argument that this is less of a reach than just siding with rebels and taking somebody out.

But yes, we should all be skeptical of the US governments ability to make things better with a regime change and of the ability to do it without congressional authorization, although if you being congress in that makes me really want to limit anything we do abroad.
 

HotMop

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Trump says he is on a ship, I assume a naval vessel, on his way to NYC. Interesting choice of transportation.
Have you ever seen a navy ships brig location? I hope he doesn't get sea sick, because he will now.
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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I don't hate it. When you're sitting on the largest oil reserves in the world and you choose the narco economy over the oil and gas industry eventually you're going to get tagged. Venezuelans weren't allowed their voice so they used their feet.
Based on this post, it seems like you support the concept that the US can decide how it wants other countries to operate from both political and economic perspectives.

Interesting.

You gonna keep that viewpoint moving forward, or will it only apply when you want it to apply?
 

T-TownDawgg

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Nov 4, 2015
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You can't separate families, liberals heads would explode.
I read a report that Maduro's wife and grown children are active and complicit participants in his illicit and illegal acts and also instrumental in stomping out any domestic opposition before it gains momentum.
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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I know it’s complex, but don’t be naive.

GITMO has been slam full of ISIS, Hamas, and AlQueda, terrorists arrested abroad for the past 20 years.

The State Department could have easily sent in a hit squad, cruise missles, or seeded a coup to have him killed, but extracted him instead.

Quadaffi and Sadam Hussein received no such quarter.
Referencing GITMO as a historical justification is wild.

And framing this incident as good because it could have been bloodier is wild.

That's some impressive spin.
 
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L4Dawg

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Have you ever seen a navy ships brig location? I hope he doesn't get sea sick, because he will now.
Not on a current ship, but I’ve seen them in a couple of museum ships. It didn’t look like fun.
 

T-TownDawgg

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Based on this post, it seems like you support the concept that the US can decide how it wants other countries to operate from both political and economic perspectives.

Interesting.
China was doing exactly that, exploiting an economically broken country.

You ok with Venezuela becoming a forward base for the PRC?
 

grinningmule

Heisman
Jul 15, 2021
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There have been few if any celebrations in the streets. The reports say most streets are deserted except for military checkpoints. We got Maduro, but it looks like the regime is still there so far.
Was mainly referencing the Venezuelans living abroad openly celebrating. I've seen a few reports of civilians pulling down giant posters of Maduro in Caracas but I'm sure that will be quelled until new people are in charge like the lady who actually won the last election.
 

jethreauxdawg

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Dec 20, 2010
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This dude stole everything from some friends of mine, hope he trips and falls getting out of the chopper
 
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BTCMoonBoy

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Dec 4, 2024
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Based on this post, it seems like you support the concept that the US can decide how it wants other countries to operate from both political and economic perspectives.

Interesting.

You gonna keep that viewpoint moving forward, or will it only apply when you want it to apply?
Yep when you’re the baddest MF on the block you apply the rules as you see fit.
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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I don't think the end result that we're seeking is to "arrest/kill" Maduro, it's facilitate a regime change and there's never been a nice, neat way to do that. We'll detain him long enough for the new group to start purging the old group and then turn him over to the new group and let them "arrest/kill" him .
We are back in the business of regime changes.
Cool, since we have such a long history of success in that area.**
 

tbaydog

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Feb 25, 2008
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I read a report that Maduro's wife and grown children are active and complicit participants in his illicit and illegal acts and also instrumental in stomping out any domestic opposition before it gains momentum.
Wife and her sons are the Head of the Snake or State...............
 

grinningmule

Heisman
Jul 15, 2021
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This dude stole everything from some friends of mine, hope he trips and falls getting out of the chopper
Was that the O.K. Oil Company that bought Uncle Jed's oil? Never knew they operated in Venezuela but I did read where Commerce Bank of Beverly Hills had their foot in the door down there.
 

L4Dawg

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Oct 27, 2016
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We are back in the business of regime changes.
Cool, since we have such a long history of success in that area.**
It doesn’t look like it. Trump said we are working with the current VP and not with the opposition. It looks like the regime stays.
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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This is the epitome of naivety.

"We should have just kidnapped Hitler and Stalin and saved ourselves 70 years of Cold War"

Nuclear weapons make this argument even more idiotic.
It was a flippant post.
Of course we can't just steal China's leaders- it would be disastrous to do so.

The point of the post though is valid, if what was claimed is true and we actually stole Venezuela's leader because we dislike what China is doing.
 
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QuaoarsKing

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Mar 11, 2008
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Was mainly referencing the Venezuelans living abroad openly celebrating. I've seen a few reports of civilians pulling down giant posters of Maduro in Caracas but I'm sure that will be quelled until new people are in charge like the lady who actually won the last election.
Apparently not...


 

BoDawg.sixpack

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Feb 5, 2010
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Based on this post, it seems like you support the concept that the US can decide how it wants other countries to operate from both political and economic perspectives.

Interesting.

You gonna keep that viewpoint moving forward, or will it only apply when you want it to apply?

I don't care who ousted him. It is widely believed he and his regime ran a narco state that orchestrated rigged elections. There's no chance for democracy as long as he's in power. Do you agree?
 

HotMop

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May 8, 2006
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Impressive show of force.
 

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mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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Yep when you’re the baddest MF on the block you apply the rules as you see fit.
It is crazy to see justification like this when I am confident many have lost their collective shít in the past and will lose their collective shít in the future when a Democrat does something similar.

Giving seemingly unfettered power to POTUS is dangerous. Each branch must be checked by the others.
It's as simple as that.
 
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