Venezuela is ...
- Thread starter L4Dawg
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He was not legitimately elected, agreed.
As mentioned up thread, my concern is that the decision to remove a leader due to them being viewed as illegitimate, is inconsistently/arbitrarily applied.
There are others in power due to shenanigans and not supporting democracy...and it's crickets. Heck, there has been actual praise for some of them.
How many casualties did we suffer with the Iran strike and now the Maduro raid? These aren't wars and we lost zero Americans.
Again, if Obama's NATO intervention in Libya was a "war" (it was consistently labeled that way and was a huge rallying cry from Republicans against him that he got us involved in another war), then this Venezuela entanglement is a war.
Nah, it was never the same after Walter Payton died.
TLDR all of it....but he's screwed.Indictment is linked below. Good stuff starts at the bottom of page 10.
Read the Indictment Against Nicolás Maduro
The Venezuelan president was accused of narco-terrorism and conspiracy to import cocaine, among other charges. His wife, Cilia Flores, was also charged.www.nytimes.com
You guys are fuсking morons.
Trump admin will argue that Maduro wasn't legitimately elected and doesn't have the same immunities that a legitimate leader of a UN nation does. Similar to Noriega as you said. Might work, might not. Noriega was an unelected military dictator that served alongside various Presidents - so our courts deferred to the executive's claim he wasn't a head of state there. They bought the claim he wasn't a legit head of state entitled to immunities. Probably a little less clear with Maduro since he's clearly been the shot caller there for the last decade+ with other countries also recognizing his legitimacy. He got there in a corrupt way but there's no question that he's the acting leader so it presents something unsettled in the international law context.
That's not me defending Maduro the person/leader. He can rot. Just bringing up unsettled and murky issues in international law that will make this interesting to follow. If Country A can decide Country B has an illegitimate leader and invade and remove them from power under international law, that's frightening. Equally frightening that someone might be able obtain power by corruption or force and get an immunity protection under the same framework.
Not just oil, but more to get Iran, Russia, China, N. Korea, and Cuban influence out of their country. Now that Venezuela is off the board......Cuba, Colombia, and Mexico......"You're on the Clock".
At least Trump took action, something Biden was too stupid to do.
To even mention AOC as president shows you are as dense as you sound. Is that the best of the best from the left?
Gosh must have missed US tanks rolling through the streets of Caracas.
He needed to go. The people are free now. Their country can become rich again but damn I am not for torture.
Since there are now many different justifications claimed, stay with me, please.
So you are saying the US is justified in invading a sovereign country and kidnapping it's leader because that will stop 5 other countries we don't like from influencing that country?
That is insane.
You need to drop this justification and support one of the other justifications.
I am pretty sure AOC was referenced because she is so divisive and is a boogeyman for the right.
It was an extreme example to help highlight the concern of giving the same power to the other side.
So what comes next? That is a deadly serious question. It’s much more important than snatching Maduro.
Great question. Whatever is next - it's the hard part. If we can facilitate a transition to legitimate democratic platform that the Venezuelan people have been wanting, then that's a win. I suspect that we will take whatever path will be of the least resistance to a privatized oil industry whether it's what the people want or not. Time will tell.
Realistically speaking.... 20 years and $2T.
The only reason I have to hope this situation turns out ok is that the Venezuelan people have some idea of what democracy looks like and they're surrounded by some stable(ish) neighbors. I think there is a chance they'll stand up for what they want.
The problem in Afghanistan was/is/always will be.. those people have no concept of freedom, democracy and finding commonality among others within their nation. They are savages with cell phones. And if that pissesoff some folks.. tough. I've read too much over the last 25 years about that part of the world. There is no fixing it.
But maybe Venezuela is different.
Agree. I guess we could find out quickly if there's a push for Gonzalez and his party to take over if the sentiment from 2024 is still there - which I assume it is. If we push for something else, then the end game will sound more profit based than watering seeds of democracy and political stability. I hope there's a democratic win for their people, but if that gets in the way of Trump's vision for the oil industry there, the Venezuelan people will be taking a back seat.
Okay, they can do it, but its not legal to do it just because you label them a terrorist.
You must be retarded
Sigh. You pick the candidate from the left then. And give me an actual answer to the question that doesn’t involve name calling. It’s a serious question
I started this thread and never commented on what I actually thought about this action. Well here I go…..There is absolutely NO doubt Maduro needed to go. The oil argument people are trying to make against it is bogus, we don’t need their oil for now. The sentiment was good, the method was over the top. The tanker blockade would have achieved the same end eventually. That being said the precedent for this is out there, Panama. All in all given what is going on elsewhere in the world, Formosa and Ukraine..I think this was a strategic and tactical misstep. Eliminating that context you can make an argument this was a good move. To begin with I thought this was incredibly stupid. After thinking on it I think the negatives outweigh the positives overall. That may not sound like a huge difference, but it really is. Time will tell, unfortunately.
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