We are incredibly defended!

[richthedentist]

Probably the best defended team in the country who’s on the NCAA bubble.
Everyone says devoid of offensive talent and athleticism, yet we’re athletic enough to play good defense for the most part.

Our players are so well defended they have no where to go, drives to the net get swatted, we are constantly trapped in no man’s land with no good pass options available. Cliff gets double teamed down low and has nowhere to go with the ball, there’s no pass for him to make because we have no one in position to receive a pass, it makes Cliff and all our players look far worse than they really are.
Not good shooters is one thing, this is another.

There are so many problems everywhere; Cliff cannot get position last night was a perfect example there was one play I was watching where Cliff had somewhat decent position and Nicholson literally pushed him 5 feet out from where he set up; there are so many issues with just Cliff; he has very low BBall IQ cannot get position because he is not strong and when he does have position and doesn't get double teamed he has zero moves and of course we all know if it is not a dunk has very poor touch on his shot
second when he does get double teamed he is completely lost as twice last night he had the ball stolen it may have been more not 100% his fault as players have to cut and move when he is doubled but he is also an awful passer this is the main aspect of our offense and it is not good don't have time to go into the rest of the offense and this has nothing to do with athleticism we don't have anyone who can shoot consistently except Cam and you run an offense where he gets only 5 shots that is not acceptable

 

[richthedentist]

excellent post. If you don't have athletes and handlers to create shots, you need to move people around with your offense or have a dominant low post player to play off of; we have neither yet we play offense like we do. Makes no sense. If you are Alabama with athletes all over the floor, you can spread it out and drive and kick. We don't have people like that, yet we stand in the corners like we do.

great post agreed 100% and if we see that why don't our coaches making millions see that!!!

 

[zappaa]

I could defend 5 telephone poles, too.

Correct

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

The team is not overly skilled from an individual player to player basis.

It has to win by taking care of the ball (avoiding turnovers), making some occasional 3 pointers and taking advantage of Cliff vs most bigs, so we can score....which sets up the defense. And this team shoots FTs better than the last 3 years worth of RU rosters, which had better players/athletes but didn't shoot the FTs nearly as well.

When the FT shooting is not there and you don't get easy baskets in transition (lack of footspeed and skill players), you have to play near-perfect defense/rebounding to keep the scores in the high 50s to low 60s.

Complaining about the lack of offense when the team doesn't possess that type of skill, is a lack of awareness. The PG play has to increase the open looks for the other stationary players/jump shooters/spot-up shooters.

 

[RuBird]

Cliff getting ball knocked out of hands is 100% due to weak hands not alot you can do about that. You play with the hands you were dealt with (no pun intended)

Yes but it was not just Cliff

 

[greenknight]

Simpson manages to score when incredibly defended. Others try to force through defenders or hold the ball too long. Cam manages to drive to basket too and score.

It doesnt matter how many times you go thru your legs., behind your back or crossover when standing in place....its does absolutely nothing. You need those plays to set up 1 move or 2 moves to beat your man otherwise useless. your better off getting & passing. These guys do iit sometimes because it takes so long to set up a play

 

[MiloTalon13]

3 of them are virtually the same player PM, CS & CM.

If you're saying this because of ONE aspect of their game, they don't beat guys off the dribble, that doesn't make them "virtually the same player". They are hugely different offensively.
If we had ONE more Cam Spencer, we'd be a ton better offensively.
If we had PM playing well, we'd be a ton better offensively. For whatever reason he is messed up.

 

[RuBird]

With all due respect Bird.
You have no idea about the importance of confidence or what the lack of it does to you

Please don’t come at me with all due respect. I am well aware of what is going on with the team. You state that the team was well defended. That we agree on. That was not the only problem. My point is that has little to do with going after loose balls, playing our tough D, hitting FTs.

 

[zappaa]

The team is not overly skilled from an individual player to player basis.

It has to win by taking care of the ball (avoiding turnovers), making some occasional 3 pointers and taking advantage of Cliff vs most bigs, so we can score....which sets up the defense. And this team shoots FTs better than the last 3 years worth of RU rosters, which had better players/athletes but didn't shoot the FTs nearly as well.

When the FT shooting is not there and you don't get easy baskets in transition (lack of footspeed and skill players), you have to play near-perfect defense/rebounding to keep the scores in the high 50s to low 60s.

Complaining about the lack of offense when the team doesn't possess that type of skill, is a lack of awareness. The PG play has to increase the open looks for the other stationary players/jump shooters/spot-up shooters.

Since our quick point guard doesn’t have a handle and our slow one can’t do the job I guess we should quit trying and stand around like statues

 

[zappaa]

Please don’t come at me with all due respect. I am well aware of what is going on with the team. You state that the team was well defended. That we agree on. That was not the only problem. My point is that has little to do with going after loose balls, playing our tough D, hitting FTs.

I disagree with your lack of effort, we absolutely go after loose balls.

 

[Shell21]

One of the problems is it's hard to attack a defense that is set up waiting for you no matter how quick you are. We are not quick or great ball handlers so when this happens for us (too often) we are never beating guys off the dribble (minus simpson). We need to attack on the catch off of ball movement while the defense is moving. Attacking close outs when the defense is rotating and moving is much easier than when they are already set and just have a straight line close out. Even when we do move the ball sometimes, we don't attack closeouts and just catch and hold allowing the defense to catch up. This is a lack of confidence from our players.

 

[RUChoppin]

He’s friggen enveloped by defenders

Partly because there are no outlet options to kick to that the defense has to respect, so they can sell out on the double team.

 

[zappaa]

It’s interesting, once again the board sentiment is we have totally one dimensional players who can’t shoot or create on their own…
Yet our offense is nothing more than guys dribbling attempting to create on their own

 

[greenknight]

Yes but it was not just Cliff

Alot of that is because they put themselves in bad spots dribbling to a double team trap and now they are off balance. In order to get pass off now the ball is exposed and they are not in a great position to protect ball. Your eyes are now looking for a lane to make a tough pass you dont see the hands coming for the ball. Once your are leaning back and not on a pivot foot your screwed

 

[zappaa]

Partly because there are no outlet options to kick to that the defense has to respect, so they can sell out on the double team.

Who’s fault is that????

 

[Shell21]

It’s interesting, once again the board sentiment is we have totally one dimensional players who can’t shoot and create on their own…
Yet our offense is nothing more than one guys dribbling attempting to create on their own

Pretty much this. If you are Alabama you can run a spread offense and allow guys to create on their own and use their natural talents and athletic ability. We don't have those players right now so you have to move the defense with player movement. You have to adjust your offensive philosophy and concepts to who you have. Sometimes this may change multiple times during the year but you can't play like Alabama(just an example) if you don't have Alabama players.

 

[RuBird]

I disagree with your lack of effort, we absolutely go after loose balls.

Caleb made a great diving play to go after a ball. Simpson and others let the ball go out of bounce because they thought the balls were off NW. Need to play with confidence and be aggressive. Can’t put the game in refs hands. On top of that we got out rebounded and we’re caught numerous times flat footed instead of going up strong for rebounds.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Since our quick point guard doesn’t have a handle and our slow one can’t do the job I guess we should quit trying and stand around like statues

Steve Kerr talks about not liking too many ball screens because the other 3 guys get stagnant and that carries over to other aspects of their game.
We ran too much PNR last night, maybe there was a good reason for it, but we ran it every time, they doubled it hard almost every time and we had no answer for that.

 

[MiloTalon13]

Yet our offense is nothing more than guys dribbling attempting to create on their own

We ran a ball screen almost every single time we got into a half-court set last night.
How is that "attempting to create on their own"?

 

[zebnatto]

BS
These kids are so hounded and so pressured it’s insane

A lot of the reason for this is that defenders have nothing to fear. They can hound and pressure us nearly to half court because we have no one except DS who can break them down and make them pay.

 

[greenknight]

It’s interesting, once again the board sentiment is we have totally one dimensional players who can’t shoot and create on their own…
Yet our offense is nothing more than guys dribbling attempting to create on their own

This isnt the 70'& 80's the game has changed. You need playmakers to create shots for themselves and others. It doesnt necessarily mean going 1V1 to get shot off it could be going 1V1 to put someone else in better position for an open look by drawing secondary defender to them. I just personally think 2 guys are wastedd in the corners. If we had great shooters or playmakers to draw the defender to get them open looks that's one thing but we currently have neither. They would be better suited cutting tonthe hoop and rebounding
It also doesnt matter having the 2cstatues in the corners drawing defenders when your guards do not have that dynamic burst to hoop for layup or put CO in place for dunk

 

[MiloTalon13]

A lot of the reason for this is that defenders have nothing to fear. They can hound and pressure us nearly to half court because we have no one except DS who can break them down and make them pay.

While that's certainly a factor, I think it's more that Cam is a problem to leave open from 3, so everyone but Cam's guy can help out on the perimeter.
If you're guarding, Paul, Caleb, Simpson or Hyatt you're help first.
We have to defend more square footage than our opponents do

 

[new jersey1_rivals661559]

Couple of things.... the scouting report is to get out on our guards and pressure them, because they aren't penetrating ball handlers who can punish defenses for extending well beyond the arc. We are more easily disrupted because we don't have multi-dimensional scorers who can exploit you if you sell out against one aspect of their game.

Also, it's not like these teams aren't defending our other conference peers at the same level of intensity - it's just that those teams have more flexible offenses that can find the weaknesses in those defenses more easily.

This. And Pike is addressing it with the incoming guard recruits… in addition to Simpson. Plus as stated above we are too deliberate in passing out of double teams… particularly from the post. Teams have a blueprint to defend us. We also need an additional spot up shooter(s). Griffiths should help.

 

[greenknight]

If you're saying this because of ONE aspect of their game, they don't beat guys off the dribble, that doesn't make them "virtually the same player". They are hugely different offensively.
If we had ONE more Cam Spencer, we'd be a ton better offensively.
If we had PM playing well, we'd be a ton better offensively. For whatever reason he is messed up.

We are not athletically talented. None of these guys have more than 1 speed. You need 2 speeds. You set people up by varying your speed. None of the 3 can get the ball on wing and get a layup or dunk on the other end. CS is not a focal point player....maybe at a lower 1A or 1AA yes. He would be much better suited at coming off screens and putting himself in positions to get open looks w/o the ball. Once he gets ball he can shoot it create off the pass he has playmaking ability. JMO. None of thec3care going to beat anyone straight up off the dribble at point

 

[RUChoppin]

Who’s fault is that????

Back to recruiting hits/misses.

 

[greenknight]

This. And Pike is addressing it with the incoming guard recruits… in addition to Simpson. Plus as stated above we are too deliberate in passing out of double teams… particularly from the post. Teams have a blueprint to defend us. We also need an additional spot up shooter(s). Griffiths should help.

It starts with Griffiths he is that player we've been missing and have never had. He can shoot the lights out, has great hops and can get downhill to the hoop. The incoming PG is also dynamic. I think the actual term I'm looking for is we do not have an ability to play fast.

 

[RUChoppin]

It’s interesting, once again the board sentiment is we have totally one dimensional players who can’t shoot or create on their own…
Yet our offense is nothing more than guys dribbling attempting to create on their own

The plan has been to get the ball to players where they are strong... and the defense's plan has been to close that off. Omoruyi's struggled to get looks in the post, and is drawing far more doubles - which takes away that element of our offense. Spencer's struggled to get looks on the arc because they're running him off the line - which takes away that element of our offense. Mulcahy's struggled in the post because they've been sending two defenders at him - which takes away that element of our offense. Hyatt's struggled because defenses have been closing off the corners.

Omoruyi hasn't been able to show a face-up 10-15 foot game. Spencer hasn't been able to penetrate past the overextended defender. Mulcahy hasn't been able to find a viable scorer to pass to from the post and hasn't finished through contact. Hyatt hasn't shown an inside post game.

Defenses are forcing us to our weaknesses, and we haven't had an answer. They'll leave McConnell open on the perimeter all day long and hope he shoots. They'll dare Spencer to drive past them. They'll force Omoruyi away from the paint and hope he still tries to get into his post offense from too far out.

We haven't shown that we consistently score through secondary means, so defenses can keep selling out against our primary means.

 

[MiloTalon13]

It starts with Griffiths he is that player we've been missing and have never had. He can shoot the lights out, has great hops and can get downhill to the hoop. The incoming PG is also dynamic. I think the actual term I'm looking for is we do not have an ability to play fast.

And don't sleep on Ndongo. Playing at Putnam and a summer on campus are going to be great for him.
A long athlete who can take it to the hole and finish and shoot 3's. High level competitor.
Chol will be like getting a new recruit too.
It's a great time to be a Rutgers basketball fan!

 

[greenknight]

May get killed on this but PM is a Magic Johnson type player. Tall. Slow non athletic type PG that relies on his ability to draw defenders to make creative passes to his teammates. Alot of that is dribbling with back to basket. 2 problems with that. His players dont cut to basket and that type of basketball is over. Players are too quick today. Plus he was more successful with that when you had RHJ &; GB. They both took focus off of PM

 

[zappaa]

We ran a ball screen almost every single time we got into a half-court set last night.
How is that "attempting to create on their own"?

What happens after we run the same ball screen we run every single possession once in the half court?

 

[new jersey1_rivals661559]

The half court offense doesn't run plays to get open shots for stationary shooters like Spencer and Hyatt.Rutgers lacks players that can create and make shots off the dribble which means the offense will be ineffective .Poor recruiting and the lack of player development has caught up with Rutgers at the end of the season.

Quick athletic guards are being recruited and coming… in addition to Simpson.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Since our quick point guard doesn’t have a handle and our slow one can’t do the job I guess we should quit trying and stand around like statues

The quick one requires the defense to react and create openings for a very mobile big man and other scoring options. The offense starts and ends with the PG and that players abilities (or lack thereof). If all 4 players are stationary, you don't have an offense.

This nonsense about not running an offense must apply to just RU.....I think we have watched enough B1G basketball over the last 4 to 5 years to know what teams have more skilled players and which ones don't.

Michigan has a lot of talent and reduced their offense for the entire 2nd half of the Indiana game to a high screen and roll, where the guard creates on the move. There are no such chances to run an individual 1980s double screen for a jump shot in this day/age of hoops.

There's one program in the B1G that focuses 98% of their program on running a high level, Ivy League based offense and that's Iowa....and their defense is beyond bad 3 out of 4 nights.

If you read the Iowa boards after losing to Nebraska at home, the complaints there for the last 5 years under Fran McCaffrey is they will never win more than 1 NCAA tournament game, without improving their defense.

Nebraska went from dead last in defense to mid level in the B1G in defense in 1 offseason and had much more success this year, than anytime under Fred Hoiberg.

You simply cannot be average to below average on defense and win at this level of basketball. Iowa is elite on offense and it shows and is slightly better than RU, with way better offensive players.

If someone wants to tell me "we should run an offense like that team does", I will be able to listen and see what team that is. Even the Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Auburn, Alabama, UCLA type programs with all 5* kids, run the same stuff most games.

 

[MiloTalon13]

What happens after we run the same ball screen we run every single possession once in the half court?

Last night typically they trapped ball screens and then we were in a scramble to pass out of them and make something happen, it didn't go well.

 

[zappaa]

The quick one requires the defense to react and create openings for a very mobile big man and other scoring options. The offense starts and ends with the PG and that players abilities (or lack thereof). If all 4 players are stationary, you don't have an offense.

This nonsense about not running an offense must apply to just RU.....I think we have watched enough B1G basketball over the last 4 to 5 years to know what teams have more skilled players and which ones don't.

Michigan has a lot of talent and reduced their offense for the entire 2nd half of the Indiana game to a high screen and roll, where the guard creates on the move. There are no such chances to run an individual 1980s double screen for a jump shot in this day/age of hoops.

There's one program in the B1G that focuses 98% of their program on running a high level, Ivy League based offense and that's Iowa....and their defense is beyond bad 3 out of 4 nights.

If you read the Iowa boards after losing to Nebraska at home, the complaints there for the last 5 years under Fran McCaffrey is they will never win more than 1 NCAA tournament game, without improving their defense.

Nebraska went from dead last in defense to mid level in the B1G in defense in 1 offseason and had much more success this year, than anytime under Fred Hoiberg.

You simply cannot be average to below average on defense and win at this level of basketball. Iowa is elite on offense and it shows and is slightly better than RU, with way better offensive players.

If someone wants to tell me "we should run an offense like that team does", I will be able to listen and see what team that is. Even the Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Auburn, Alabama, UCLA type programs with all 5* kids, run the same stuff most games.

So we have no chance to beat Michigan is what you’re saying

 

[new jersey1_rivals661559]

The plan has been to get the ball to players where they are strong... and the defense's plan has been to close that off. Omoruyi's struggled to get looks in the post, and is drawing far more doubles - which takes away that element of our offense. Spencer's struggled to get looks on the arc because they're running him off the line - which takes away that element of our offense. Mulcahy's struggled in the post because they've been sending two defenders at him - which takes away that element of our offense. Hyatt's struggled because defenses have been closing off the corners.

Omoruyi hasn't been able to show a face-up 10-15 foot game. Spencer hasn't been able to penetrate past the overextended defender. Mulcahy hasn't been able to find a viable scorer to pass to from the post and hasn't finished through contact. Hyatt hasn't shown an inside post game.

Defenses are forcing us to our weaknesses, and we haven't had an answer. They'll leave McConnell open on the perimeter all day long and hope he shoots. They'll dare Spencer to drive past them. They'll force Omoruyi away from the paint and hope he still tries to get into his post offense from too far out.

We haven't shown that we consistently score through secondary means, so defenses can keep selling out against our primary means.

Spot on. I do think Cam is a little underrated with respect to getting into the lane but it’s not his strength.

 

[RUBlackout]

You know why Mag was so valuable?? He moved a ton without the ball. Those double teams on Cliff created another spot to pass to because Mag would flash into the paint creating another outlet to pass to. Now, all we get is 2 guards standing outside the 3pt line waiting for the pass while being completed pasted by the defense as they know they will not move. How can you NOT defend this??

Question is this coaching or execution?

Go back and watch the tape. Hyatt stands on the exact opposite 3pt line from where Cliff is without moving an inch. Now you have 5 on 4 on one side of the ball. The minute I see a backdoor pass from this team is the minute I know we will turn things around. Every team is defending us up close bc we dribble way too much and become stagnant on offense. It is NOT for a lack of offensive sets but due to players IMO

 

[new jersey1_rivals661559]

One thought regarding Northwestern. They are a senior laden team with Buie and Audige who play as well defensively as any team in the B1G.

 

[greenknight]

Last night typically they trapped ball screens and then we were in a scramble to pass out of them and make something happen, it didn't go well.

The play there was to corners. Corners cutting to the basket. The down low defender covered the middle and the corner. He picked up Cliff on the roll. The corner was wide open. These guys need to know to go to the basket w/o the ball. Cliff never looked for ball on roll.

But it was either to cliff or corners. If they just moved the ball there were lots of layups to be had. It wasnt a great defense but doesnt have to be when the corners possess zero playmaking ability and just stay in the corners.
PM is tall enough to hit the cutters to the hoop.

 

[MiloTalon13]

One thought regarding Northwestern. They are a senior laden team with Buie and Audige who play as well defensively as any team in the B1G.

Good point - NW has high BBIQ, good player/ball movement good shot making, terrific defensive communication/rotations

But... we're not exactly young
Hyatt and Caleb - 5th year
Paul and Cam - 4th year
Cliff and Oskar - 3rd year

 

[new jersey1_rivals661559]

You know why Mag was so valuable?? He moved a ton without the ball. Those double teams on Cliff created another spot to pass to because Mag would flash into the paint creating another outlet to pass to. Now, all we get is 2 guards standing outside the 3pt line waiting for the pass while being completed pasted by the defense as they know they will not move. How can you NOT defend this??

Question is this coaching or execution?

Go back and watch the tape. Hyatt stands on the exact opposite 3pt line from where Cliff is without moving an inch. Now you have 5 on 4 on one side of the ball. The minute I see a backdoor pass from this team is the minute I know we will turn things around. Every team is defending us up close bc we dribble way too much and become stagnant on offense. It is NOT for a lack of offensive sets but due to players IMO

And Mag had a decent mid-range game which was only getting better. Besides his defense (great) and rebounding, he was becoming a fairly efficient scorer.