It would have been a quality win. Because they went 7-5. USC is 3-7 and last place in SEC. so it's not a quality win merriman. That's as good as I can dumb it down for you man. When you beat a 7-5 SEC team it's a quality win. When you beat a last place 3-7 SEC team it's not a quality win. Make sense?
Would you be calling for Sabans head?
- Thread starter mrhotdice
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Hate to tell you this, but sadly, not too many people on our schedule sees us as a quality win. Sorry. Even when we had Woodson, people expected to beat us.
If Florida was 3-8 at the time last season and if we beat them. I wouldn't have called it a quality win because 3-8 equals trash. 7-5>3-7
You just said that last years Florida team is as good as this years USC team. That's not true merriman. It's not effing true man you sound like an idiot trying to justify that.
Well then Stoops does have a quality win then. He beat a USC team last year that finished 7-6. So there you go. When can end the debate. stoops has a quality win.
Lol wowwwwwww. Why are you still ignoring the fact that you tried to claim this years USC team is as good as last years Florida team. And I never said the USC win last year wasn't a quality win did i? I said he he zero quality wins THIS YEAR and ZERO out of the last 16 games in which stoops is 4-12 in. Please answer this question. How is this years USC team as good as last years Florida team? Still waiting on an answer for that.
Here's how it breaks down: You threw out Nick Saban's record from his first 3-4 years. In the context of the discussion, you were clearly implying that there was an equivalence between a six win season then and a six win season now. I don't know how else a reasonable person could interpret that given the context. I don't believe that is so - certainly not specifically in the case of Nick Saban at MSU - and made the point that he didn't get the three games against mid-major/FCS teams like most coaches do these days. Factually I am unarguably correct. I believe my conclusion that this nullifies your claim of equivalence is also correct. Saban's future success would seem to bolster my argument as well. I'll also add that if IIRC - going off memory here - he inherited a program with an ongoing academic scandal from the George Perles era. Couldn't have been helpful.
You argued that a win against this years USC team. Would be equal to a win against last year Florida team. And the question remains how? How are those the same thing. And one quality win every 2 years doesn't make a coach successful? Apparently to you it does but in actuality in the real world. It doesn't merriman.
Another way of wording it. We had one quality win last year. And zero this year. How does that mark improvement again?
There is. Knowing good and well that we have people claiming that Vandy isn't a quality win because they are Vandy. Then want to come on here and act like wins over a winless Illinois team or a 2-10 Purdue team are whatever is good because they are a major conference team. Your argument was clearly trying to make it out that todays schedule is easier than then. That is simply not true. Playing bad teams is playing bad teams. I mean, we have the other guy in this thread that keeps saying that Mizzou and USC are not quality wins because of their records. Then say that teams like those that Saban played against are ok because they play in a major conference. Well, so does Mizz and USC. And you mention Saban now. Again, as I stated earlier, that is not fair to SToops as he has not been able to reach where Saban is now as they started at different times. So again, my argument is to say that we should compare their first years as a head coach if we are going to compare. Now, when Stoops has the time as a head coach like Saban did, then we can compare their careers in its entirety.
Still waiting on an answer. How is this years last place USC team a quality win? and how are they as good as Florida was last season?
Two quick points: You're correct that I'm saying a schedule without 2 mid-majors plus and an FCS team is harder than one with those things. That's pretty much self evident. Everyone gets to play a couple crap teams at the bottom level of their conference. That's a wash. Second: are you sure you want to compare their first years as a head coach?
Because you have to look at the time during the year when you played those teams as well. When we beat USC and Mizzou, they weren't as bad as they are now. Mizzou lost their QB and replaced him with a true freshman. And don't give me Mauk sucked crap as he did lead his team to an SEC championship. and USC started falling apart after our loss. Probably felt like they should quit for losing to us two times in a row. Before the year started EVERYONE on this board just about was counting at least one of those games a loss. We beat both. So at the time, those were quality wins as were expected to lose them. So USC was the equivalent to US as UF when it relates to a quality win. Now you can stop asking the question that you didn't give time to answer.
Isn't that ridiculous. Every team has the bottom feeder conference teams every year. But when you play a tough OOC that's like 3 less cupcake teams you play in a season. Zero logic with this guy. He tried to say this years last place USC team is a quality win because they're apparently as good as last years Florida team? Lol.
Whattttt did you just say? No man those are the same teams now as they were when we played earlier this season. This isn't last years mizzou team. Mizzous defense won the sec east last year. This is this years mizzou team. And this is this years last place USC team. That's the same last place team we beat earlier in the year. Wow just wow man. I'm dumbfounded on this one. So you truly believe this years USC team is as good as last years Florida team? You really believe that? Really now?
And they benched mauk in favor of the freshman because mauk wasn't producing.
Gotcha. And I don't think it is fair to compare Stoops to one of, if not the greatest college coaches of all time in any manner. Now, at the end of their careers if we are trying to argue which coach is better, then that would be more fair. All my post about Saban was meant to do is compare in a more fair way, which is still not very fair to Stoops, and to also say that just because you start out rocky doesn't mean you can't be a very good coach.
As far as the schedule, with the dominance of the SEC over the last 20 years, I would say that UK has not had a schedule as easy as Saban's first 4 years at MSU, even with the Non-conference schedule.
No...they benched him because he was causing trouble. Which is why he is now been kicked off the team. And again, equivalent to US. Dude, you should really go back and work on comprehension. That means that to us, beating a team that we are not picked to beat, and has beaten us just about every year for the last 20, is the same quality as it is to beat a UF team that has beaten us for over 20 years and we are not picked to win. Get it?
No SEC schedule is pathetic. It is definitely easier than most years, but not pathetic.
ULL-weak
Eku-weak
Vandy-weak
Florida-they're pretty good
Mizzou-mediocre at the very best most likely not going bowling this year
USC-weak
Tennessee-mediocre at best
MSU-they're pretty good not great or very good by any means.
Auburn-mediocre at best
Charlotte-weak
Louisville-not good at all product of a weak conference
UGA-mediocre at best when we played them due to loss of Chubb.
All that along with 8 home games? Easiest schedule I've ever seen at UK for football by far.
This is the weakest SEC east in a long time. A long long time it's a very bad SEC east this year outside of Florida. And the 2 west team we played were auburn and MSU. We didn't have to play any of the juggernauts in the SEC this year. Not one. So yea this is the weakest schedule UK has ever had in football since probably the early 90s maybe even longer than that. And we had 8 home games to go along with the bad schedule.
No it's not. You said this years USC team is as good as last years Florida team. This years last place USC team is not as good as last years Floridas bowl team. You tried to say that those 2 teams are equal. Which is simply not true man. You can't compare beating a last place USC team to a Florida team that went to a bowl game last year.
It simply doesn't work like that you can't compare apples and oaranges. You can't say this years USC team is as good as last years Florida team when there's not a single bit of proof to back that up
I'm not sure what I've been gotten on. This year we played the three OOC cupcakes, the SEC East is down, and we drew the last place team in the West division (hell, Miss State is second to last right now). No Alabama, no LSU, no Ole Miss. We have one team on our schedule currently ranked in the Top 25. ONE. Our schedule this year wasn't all that difficult at all. You're argument simply doesn't wash. As far as it being unfair to compare to Saban, you're the one that brought Saban into it.
UGA is 7-3 and has a really good change at 9-3 season. Not mediocre.
UT 6-4 with a good chance at finishing 8-4. Better than mediocre.
MSU 7-3 right now. Better than mediocre
Those are the teams that embarrassed us. They are better than mediocre. But I agree that this is the easiest schedule that UK has had in a VERY long time. But it still isn't pathetic.
Did you read the title of the thread?? Ummmm.....The thread was directly asking about Saban.
And as far as the schedule, I do agree that this year's schedule has turned out to be easier than what most thought. Most experts had AU preseason top 5. So you need to ask yourself, are they a product of bad talent, or a product of not having the right chemistry with that talent? Most people, including most everyone on this board didn't even expect us to be in the game with the teams you are mentioning. Now, all of a sudden we should beat those teams because they haven't lived up to their expectations. Them not being as good as they were supposed to be didn't magically make us better. If they had the seasons they were projected to have and we had the one we were projected to have, they would have drilled us.
Your argument merriman was this. You asked me if we had beaten last years Florida team. Would have that been a quality win. I said yes. You then said how would that be a quality win and beating this years USC team not be a quality win and told me I can't have it both ways because you claimed they're just as good. That's when I pointed out that a last place SEC team in a weak sec east this year. Is nowhere near as good as last years 7-5 Florida team. 7-5 > 3-7. Simple math man I'm not asking for it both ways because they're nowhere the same.
No...I said for the 1 millionth time...that they were equivalent!! Not just as good. Equivalent. As in to US beating a team that has been whipping our tails every year is a quality win. So if UF would have been a quality win because of that, then USC last year and this year is to according to your own admission.
As I said since chubs injury they have been mediocre at best. They started off like what 5-0. Now they're 7-3 with a win over a weak team like Kentucky. So since Chubb there record has been 2-3 with a win over us? Yes man UGA is mediocre at best without Chubb. Believe it or not.
You said earlier that teams don't change throughout the year. Like Mizzou losing their starting QB makes them different than they are now. They have been mediocre sense then. Also, the loss of Orth for USC, due to our game btw, that helped changed their team. So you do agree that when we played them they were different and better then than now.
I'll grant you, in the course of the discussion I forgot that Saban was the initial subject of the thread. Point taken. But your record/schedule argument still doesn't wash. You should have just said, "Yeah, Saban started off way better than Mark Stoops but he's Nick Saban so you can't make a comparison" and let it go at that instead of rattling off his records as if that proved something. And I'm not sure who didn't expect us to be in the game with which teams. Even the more pessimistic people thought we'd be competitive in most games. With that said - I haven't given up on Stoops yet. If fact, up until Saturday all my posts were in defense of him. Saturday was a real eye opener for me though - especially in the context of a second straight complete collapse in the 2nd half of the year. We're not at Joker Phillips Year 2 level hopeless yet. But this has been a disappointing first 10 games of year 3 taken in total - made all the more so by the fact that the schedule was extremely manageable.
Nope. If Florida finished 4-8 last year and if we beat them. I wouldn't have called it a quality win. But the fact is they were 7-5. You can never base THIS season on the history of programs. We beat a 3-7 USC team. Not the 10 wins USC teams we beat the last place USC team. Far from a quality win sir. Had we beaten a 7-5 Florida feam. It would have been a quality win. Also joker won against USC. So stop spouting off like wins against them is some major feet. You did say this years USC team is as good as last years Florida team. Swear you did man. You said I can't call a win over last years Florida team had we beaten Florida a quality win. If I'm not going to say this years USC game is a quality win. Insinuating both teams are equal. You said I can't have it both ways as if the 2 teams are equal. When simply this years USC team is trash and last years Florida team was a little above average. These are your words. You told me that I can't have it both ways by saying this years USC game isn't a quality win. And say at the same time if we beat Florida last year that it would have been a quality win. You said I can't have it both ways. I can't call that a quality win had we won if I'm not willing to call the USC win a quality win. Those was your words. And what I'm saying is. Yes I can call that Florida game a quality win had we won AND say that this years USC win isn't a quality win. Because the simple fact USC is in last place this year and Florida last year was a 7-5 bowl team. No comparison. You're very slow I've noticed I'll leave you alone
Fair points...But the reason I posted the stat on Saban was to prove that even the great ones have issues with circumstances and that it isn't as easy as just saying that Stoops should just, "coach 'em up." Circumstances dictate a lot. That, is all I was trying to prove. But again, I have said multiple times as well that Stoops has to get some thing corrected for sure. But I still think he is the guy simply due to recruiting at this point. The stuff he is doing is correctable. But not everyone can come in and recruit like he has. That has definitely been proven. Now, we still need to take the recruiting up another level, but you have to start somewhere to close that gap before you can start moving up the SEC latter in recruiting.
Nope they weren't better. Mauk hadn't done anything noteworthy this year when he played. The freshman is probably better honestly. And all of USCs qbs this year are trash. They were bad then. They're Bad now. I do not think either of those teams were better when we played them earlier in the year. Because mizzou is mediocre at the very best. And USC is trash. You have no logic man none what is your issue dude do you have a love affair with stoops? Is that why you're using arguments with no valid points to try and defend him? What's your agenda sir?
That isn't what you said though. I asked, if we beat a mediocre UF team last year, would that have been a quality win. You said yes, because they have beaten us 30 years in a row. That what I was getting at.
I quit man please don't reply this argument is going nowhere you're going to continue to think this years USC team is as good as last years Florida team and there's no changing your opinion regardless of how much better last years Florida team is compared to this years USC team. You just like the UK coach you admire are trash. The picture next to your screen name screams of a man that just loves him some bad football. You have no logic EVERYONE on this board for the most part always says you're one of the less intelligent ones on here. So I'm not gonna mince myself with such odiocracy. It makes me look like an idiot for even arguing with such stupidity. So deuces man.
Nope. Just defending my position to a guy whose first post on this sight was insulting me. Not having a logical discussion, but started off calling me an idiot. So I am defending my opinions. But it is funny that you ask that because your posts make it seem that you are very angry and me and Stoops. I don't think I know you, and would bet you don't know Stoops either, so I don't get the anger.
Well if they had beaten us 30 straight years and had gone 4-8 I would've said no it's not a quality win. But the fact is they were 7-5. The fact of the matter remains the same. You said I can't have it both ways by saying I can't call this years win against a 3-7 last place USC team a quality win. And if we beaten Florida I wouldn't be able to call that a quality win because I'm not calling USC a quality win. When USC is 3-7 and Florida was 7-5 last year so yes your argument makes zero sense.