Cosching staff

BuddyLee101514 said:

We had 5 guys picked in top 71 of NFL draft and went 7-6 last year. If that doesn't scream piss poor coaching I dont know what does. They should all donate last year's salary back. Cause they stole their money last year. Still find it crazy that Dabo has let it slip this far

Still numerous talented players across the two-deep depth chart, just not as many as there were during their 2015-2020 run. NFL draft picks are great for a program, sure, but it simply doesn't tell the whole story. Because recruiting has fallen off in recent years, Clemson does not have the competitive depth it enjoyed during 2015-2020. It does not have a generational QB, which covers up a lot. Clemson isn't stacking highly-ranked recruiting classes and hasn't for several years. With that fact, instead of going to the portal for starter-quality pieces (up until this past winter), the decision was made to either stand pat or reach for the fallback board and take under-the-radar 17-year old prospects who were not on the offer boards of major power 4 competitors. You've seen a lot of frustration expressed by subscribers over this and rightfully so. The overwhelming majority of the time you reach on a kid late (who in many cases wasn't close to picking up an offer from you during the height of the recruiting cycle), he's not going to pan out. Sometimes kids are rated highly out of high school and do indeed live up to that billing, but do nothing in the NFL. For example, Woody Dantzler was billed a 5.8 or a low four-star in 1997. He did nothing in the NFL, but absolutely lived up to that billing as a collegiate player. Clemson absolutely hit on Dantzler. And evaluating a 17-year old kid, you're evaluating him as a college prospect, not what you think he'll do from 22-32 years of age. Dalton Freeman did nothing in the NFL, but here again was a low four-star rated recruit out of high school. Like Dantzler, he lived up to that billing, starting nearly 50 games, earning first-team All-American honors and all-conference honors (on multiple occasions). There are countless examples of Dalton Freemans/Woody Dantzler's. NFL draft picks are an indicator, but they don't tell the whole story. To your point, though, questioning player development is absolutely fair game. The head coach himself says it's fair game, stating last fall that their product on the field was the result of "an absolute coaching failure." And in recent interviews, accordingly, he has shouldered the blame for their worst season in 15 years.

QB is more important than ever. See Fernando Mendoza for a perfect example…Indiana doesn’t win a playoff game without him at the helm

While I agree with everything you said, its still incredibly frustrating to see our lack of willingness to adept. If anyone had told me 5 years ago that Dabo would ever be on any kind of hot seat at Clemson, I would have laughed at them. Very loudly! Yet here we are.

Chris Ard said:

Still numerous talented players across the two-deep depth chart, just not as many as there were during their 2015-2020 run. NFL draft picks are great for a program, sure, but it simply doesn't tell the whole story. Because recruiting has fallen off in recent years, Clemson does not have the competitive depth it enjoyed during 2015-2020. It does not have a generational QB, which covers up a lot. Clemson isn't stacking highly-ranked recruiting classes and hasn't for several years. With that fact, instead of going to the portal for starter-quality pieces (up until this past winter), the decision was made to either stand pat or reach for the fallback board and take under-the-radar 17-year old prospects who were not on the offer boards of major power 4 competitors. You've seen a lot of frustration expressed by subscribers over this and rightfully so. The overwhelming majority of the time you reach on a kid late (who in many cases wasn't close to picking up an offer from you during the height of the recruiting cycle), he's not going to pan out. Sometimes kids are rated highly out of high school and do indeed live up to that billing, but do nothing in the NFL. For example, Woody Dantzler was billed a 5.8 or a low four-star in 1997. He did nothing in the NFL, but absolutely lived up to that billing as a collegiate player. Clemson absolutely hit on Dantzler. And evaluating a 17-year old kid, you're evaluating him as a college prospect, not what you think he'll do from 22-32 years of age. Dalton Freeman did nothing in the NFL, but here again was a low four-star rated recruit out of high school. Like Dantzler, he lived up to that billing, starting nearly 50 games, earning first-team All-American honors and all-conference honors (on multiple occasions). There are countless examples of Dalton Freemans/Woody Dantzler's. NFL draft picks are an indicator, but they don't tell the whole story. To your point, though, questioning player development is absolutely fair game. The head coach himself says it's fair game, stating last fall that their product on the field was the result of "an absolute coaching failure." And in recent interviews, accordingly, he has shouldered the blame for their worst season in 15 years.

And those reaches to the fallback board stick around for 4-5 years without any pressure to move on nor has their spot been recruited in the portal because that “roster number” was already filled

Put DW or TL on these teams the last few years and the story is a lot different. But this is going to be a daily/weekly convo heading into fall. The team underachieved big time and the players getting paid big money did not earn their paychecks.

Dutch_Peacheater said:

And those reaches to the fallback board stick around for 4-5 years without any pressure to move on nor has their spot been recruited in the portal because that “roster number” was already filled

Yes sir, correct. For the most part, that is indeed accurate. And it's a losing strategy. That's now been proven ... repeatedly. Your point is an accurate one.

BuddyLee101514 said:

We had 5 guys picked in top 71 of NFL draft and went 7-6 last year. If that doesn't scream piss poor coaching I dont know what does. They should all donate last year's salary back. Cause they stole their money last year. Still find it crazy that Dabo has let it slip this far

Three of those players should donate 75% of their last year's salary to our NIL fund. Not taking up for our coaches, but Ohio State had how many of the first 71 drafted? Was their not winning the Conference or National Title piss poor coaching?

Johnstone D-5 said:

Three of those players should donate 75% of their last year's salary to our NIL fund. Not taking up for our coaches, but Ohio State had how many of the first 71 drafted? Was their not winning the Conference or National Title piss poor coaching?

let's be honest here...OSU was 12-2 man. Clemson was 7-6. That is not even comparable and Clemson underachieved. There is no making an argument for last season. It was a failure. No comparing them to OSU

Johnstone D-5 said:

Three of those players should donate 75% of their last year's salary to our NIL fund. Not taking up for our coaches, but Ohio State had how many of the first 71 drafted? Was their not winning the Conference or National Title piss poor coaching?

Ohio State won 12 games and lost in the playoffs. They also lost in their conference championship game to the future national champions. I would say they were coached pretty well last year.

Chris Ard said:

Yes sir, correct. For the most part, that is indeed accurate. And it's a losing strategy. That's now been proven ... repeatedly. Your point is an accurate one.

I’m hope I’m wrong, but even though Dabo used the portal to fill holes this year. I’m still not convinced he’ll use it hard enough to field a national championship caliber team

I don’t care. Pwoo is a cool nickname, so I will allow a 7-6 season 🙌

clemsonkelly said:

I’m hope I’m wrong, but even though Dabo used the portal to fill holes this year. I’m still not convinced he’ll use it hard enough to field a national championship caliber team

FWIW, I think he will go deeper into the portal next winter irrespective of the team's record this fall. And he'll certainly do it if he's coaching for his job and has no other alternative.

kidmike41 said:

Ohio State won 12 games and lost in the playoffs. They also lost in their conference championship game to the future national champions. I would say they were coached pretty well last year.

Thanks for the history lesson kid, or should I say punk. lol

Johnstone D-5 said:

Three of those players should donate 75% of their last year's salary to our NIL fund. Not taking up for our coaches, but Ohio State had how many of the first 71 drafted? Was their not winning the Conference or National Title piss poor coaching?

They lost a close game to Indiana and a red hot Miami team. Poor comparison at best.

BuddyLee101514 said:

We had 5 guys picked in top 71 of NFL draft and went 7-6 last year. If that doesn't scream piss poor coaching I dont know what does. They should all donate last year's salary back. Cause they stole their money last year. Still find it crazy that Dabo has let it slip this far

After every Clemson player gets drafted, they spend minutes talking about how awful the team was and how it’s unimaginable that a team with this level of draft talent could underachieve at such a level. i know Clemson will use or spin this draft for positive PR, but all it’s doing is reminding the media and our fans of the coaching malpractice that took place.

Depth is an issue, for sure!! If Wesco or Moore should go down to any injury, then CV’s job will get super-challenging AW/10 going down early this past year hurt a lot … TBrown went down the year before … razor thin competitive depth is a killer w/out a superstar QB1 that can overcome huge gaps

Chris Ard said:

FWIW, I think he will go deeper into the portal next winter irrespective of the team's record this fall. And he'll certainly do it if he's coaching for his job and has no other alternative.

Not arguing with you, Chris, but curious why you think Dabo may go to the portal harder next winter irrespective of the team's record? Thus far he seems to be holding to his company line of only filling spots that had attrition and are lacking numbers?

Dutch_Peacheater said:

And those reaches to the fallback board stick around for 4-5 years without any pressure to move on nor has their spot been recruited in the portal because that “roster number” was already filled

Who would have ever thought not recruiting any top players, not matching offers and losing your best recruits, and taking fallbacks instead would hurt?? Add in not plugging holes with the portal. I just can’t believe a man as smart as Dabo couldn’t see this coming?

7 players drafted in the first four rounds. Breaking records.

CUFever91 said:

Not arguing with you, Chris, but curious why you think Dabo may go to the portal harder next winter irrespective of the team's record? Thus far he seems to be holding to his company line of only filling spots that had attrition and are lacking numbers?

I think over time he's gotten more comfortable with the portal idea, given his repeated comments about the character of the portal players they've signed. That's extremely important to him. So there's no more discussion of whether transfers are going to damage the culture he's so protective of. Also, they've not made significant breakthroughs in recruiting (high school), so that unto itself will necessitate a deeper dive into the portal. I just don't feel he has a choice at this point. You hold your nose and do what needs to be done. You don't have to be fired up about it. You don't have to like it. You just have to do it because duty calls and as the head football coach, you have a duty and an obligation to your employer to go to the end of the earth to put forth the very best team and by doing so using every lever at your disposal.

tigerwoodnc said:

Who would have ever thought not recruiting any top players, not matching offers and losing your best recruits, and taking fallbacks instead would hurt?? Add in not plugging holes with the portal. I just can’t believe a man as smart as Dabo couldn’t see this coming?

Exactly 💯. Dabo has just been so committed to his 'little black book' of the principles and ideals on which the program is built that he hasn't been able to see any other way. He hasn't seemed to admit to himself that those foundational fundamentals that he so painstakingly reinstalls with his staff every year don't all fit today's game. That book needs some updating to say the least. Many of those ideals are great and are still applicable, but the old "til graduation do we part" does not work in the elites of today's game.

Chris Ard said:

Still numerous talented players across the two-deep depth chart, just not as many as there were during their 2015-2020 run. NFL draft picks are great for a program, sure, but it simply doesn't tell the whole story. Because recruiting has fallen off in recent years, Clemson does not have the competitive depth it enjoyed during 2015-2020. It does not have a generational QB, which covers up a lot. Clemson isn't stacking highly-ranked recruiting classes and hasn't for several years. With that fact, instead of going to the portal for starter-quality pieces (up until this past winter), the decision was made to either stand pat or reach for the fallback board and take under-the-radar 17-year old prospects who were not on the offer boards of major power 4 competitors. You've seen a lot of frustration expressed by subscribers over this and rightfully so. The overwhelming majority of the time you reach on a kid late (who in many cases wasn't close to picking up an offer from you during the height of the recruiting cycle), he's not going to pan out. Sometimes kids are rated highly out of high school and do indeed live up to that billing, but do nothing in the NFL. For example, Woody Dantzler was billed a 5.8 or a low four-star in 1997. He did nothing in the NFL, but absolutely lived up to that billing as a collegiate player. Clemson absolutely hit on Dantzler. And evaluating a 17-year old kid, you're evaluating him as a college prospect, not what you think he'll do from 22-32 years of age. Dalton Freeman did nothing in the NFL, but here again was a low four-star rated recruit out of high school. Like Dantzler, he lived up to that billing, starting nearly 50 games, earning first-team All-American honors and all-conference honors (on multiple occasions). There are countless examples of Dalton Freemans/Woody Dantzler's. NFL draft picks are an indicator, but they don't tell the whole story. To your point, though, questioning player development is absolutely fair game. The head coach himself says it's fair game, stating last fall that their product on the field was the result of "an absolute coaching failure." And in recent interviews, accordingly, he has shouldered the blame for their worst season in 15 years.

Great writeup. Thanks Chris.

Chris Ard said:

I think over time he's gotten more comfortable with the portal idea, given his repeated comments about the character of the portal players they've signed. That's extremely important to him. So there's no more discussion of whether transfers are going to damage the culture he's so protective of. Also, they've not made significant breakthroughs in recruiting (high school), so that unto itself will necessitate a deeper dive into the portal. I just don't feel he has a choice at this point. You hold your nose and do what needs to be done. You don't have to be fired up about it. You don't have to like it. You just have to do it because duty calls and as the head football coach, you have a duty and an obligation to your employer to go to the end of the earth to put forth the very best team and by doing so using every lever at your disposal.

Thanks, Chris. I sure hope you're right. I've been 50/50 on if he's willing to go down with the ship by not bending to meet today's game and talent attainment methods or if he'll change in order to not go down as an out of touch dinosaur with losing records.

CUFever91 said:

Thanks, Chris. I sure hope you're right. I've been 50/50 on if he's willing to go down with the ship by not bending to meet today's game and talent attainment methods or if he'll change in order to not go down as an out of touch dinosaur with losing records.

I think 10 transfers over the winter represented a shift in philosophy. That was several multiples of where he was the prior year. Not enough, IMO, but a clear step forward. He's not going to have a choice IMO. You're going to do business in the portal whether you like it or not. It's a way of life now in college football. And Clemson needs more top-end, starter-quality, pieces.