Hurley would have been fired at UK before ever winning a champ

theRealCeaser11 said:

Year 1: 16-17 (missed tourney) Year 2: 19-12 (may have missed tourney - COVID) Year 3: 15-8 (7 seed, lost in first round) Year 4: 23-10 (5 seed, lost in first round) Year 5: 31-8 (champ) Year 6: 37-3 (champ) To be honest, I'm personally torn on Pope.

• Gets down early in games, seems to be a game preparation issue. It's not just a problem this year or because of injuries.
• Being down 12 or more points in 13 of 19 games against power 4 seems nearly impossible.
• Subbing patterns are terrible.
• Has had some odd interviews, especially after losses
• Incredibly inconsistent game to game (throughout his career, not just here)
• Hasn't proved he can finish better than 5th in his conference
• Has missed out on top recruits and hasn't signed anyone this year (it's still unclear to me if this is a Pope problem or JMI problem or both)
• ...fill in the blank

However, I do think if you give a highly intelligent, highly passionate coach time, especially one that will give everything for the program, he can learn from his mistakes and improve. I get the frustration because I'm incredibly frustrated, and given the choice today, I may opt for a new coach, I'm not sure. I'm far from a sunshine pumper when it comes to Pope. But at the same time, I do think he has a lot of positives that can translate into championships given time to learn/progress.

• Has proven he can build an elite offense
• He's more passionate about Kentucky than any other coach out there
• Will work his *** off to get better. Will work his *** off to improve his team.
• The type of man and personality you want running your program
• He truly has dealt with an unprecedented amount of injuries, yet still made the s16 last year and has shown he can adapt this year and have some success. We wouldn't be complaining about J. Johnson or Noah playing too much if we had Lowe and/or Kam. We could handle more interior physicality with JQ.

The main point is this: Look at Hurley's first four years. Fans would've have been far more upset with him than we are with Pope - and now he's now the premier coach. Coach K completely missed the tournament his first 3 years, but they gave him time to come into his own (yes, I know today is different with the transfer portal and one-and-dones. But a 38-47 start, we would have gone nuclear). There's a big list of coaches who had rough starts before winning chips, but their schools gave them the chance to learn and improve. I think Pope can get better, I just hope he does it sooner rather than later. I'm personally willing to be patient through year 3 if that's what the administration wants to do, but if it's the same story, I'll be begging for a change. I'd also be good with a change after this year (I just don't think that'll happen)

Or at least some of the fan base would be calling for him to have been fired. Hurley is a king where he is, they most likely will never let him go unless he does something really stupid, he can do pretty much what he wants and doesn't have to worry about part of his fan base calling for his head, like UK.

FARRRRRR Hurley

Overall winning percentages: Wagner 38-23 62.3% Rhode Island 113-82 57.9% UConn 189-71 72.7% Overall 340-176 65.9% It is interesting to note that in the fifteen (15) years prior to this year, Hurley lost 10+ games ten (10) times. With 174 losses through last year, he averaged 11.6 losses per year. His back-to-back Championship years were 2022-23 (31-8) and 2023-24 (37-3). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Hurley#:~:text=Daniel%20S.%20Hurley%20(born%20January,coach%20of%20the%20UConn%20Huskies.

Trinity45 said:

Or at least some of the fan base would be calling for him to have been fired. Hurley is a king where he is, they most likely will never let him go unless he does something really stupid, he can do pretty much what he wants and doesn't have to worry about part of his fan base calling for his head, like UK.

really good thread.... and even as a champ, they lost 8 games

megablue said:

Overall winning percentages: Wagner 38-23 62.3% Rhode Island 113-82 57.9% UConn 189-71 72.7% Overall 340-176 65.9% It is interesting to note that in the fifteen (15) years prior to this year, Hurley lost 10+ games ten (10) times. With 174 losses through last year, he averaged 11.6 losses per year. His back-to-back Championship years were 2022-23 (31-8) and 2023-24 (37-3). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Hurley#:~:text=Daniel%20S.%20Hurley%20(born%20January,coach%20of%20the%20UConn%20Huskies.

that must been when he had no talent and he couldn't coach or recruit....... :)

He's getting a third year whether you, I, or anyone else is excited about it. There is a problem with comparing Pope's current tenure with that of other coaches at various programs and it is that they are not UK basketball. This is not a job where you "learn" how to become a good coach. UK is not a learn on the job program. A majority of people understand this. Duke was a two time runner up program with little success. Why would they not stick with Coach K? UConn had 1 EE and 2 SS before Calhoun. He won 3 championships there and was followed by Ollie who won one early similar to Tubby with a less successful tenure in comparison. Hurley is more comparable to Pitino. Pitino took the job looking at a two year probation, he "won" the SEC in the second. Hurley did not have much success the two covid years but won his first championship one year quicker. The main difference is Pitino had prior success taking Providence to the FF and the Knicks twice to the playoffs. He also showed measurable improvement each season, played an exciting brand of basketball, and never had any questions about the heart and hustle of his teams. Pope coached 9 years in the state of Utah with no NCAA tournament wins and only two seasons with single digit losses. He has never won as much as a conference championship. He has no prior track record of success. His current tenure is not, at this moment, showing an upward trend. He is almost Billy Clyde 2.0 without the gardner-webb and VMI fiascos. He says he "understands the assignment", his product does not show that. He has not recruited, he has not hired a gm, his mistakes follow a predictable repeated pattern. This a job where you take the best coaches from other programs and if they do not carry the success over you move on. In the program history, UK has not had to do it a lot but it is not a place you settle for mediocre. Stop the "learn on the job" nonsense.

Wasn't UConn on probation when Hurley took over?

theRealCeaser11 said:

However, I do think if you give a highly intelligent , highly passionate coach time

Why does a highly intelligent coach make a stupid decision to give a 7’0 Center millions of dollars, fresh off an ACL tear and expect him to be a major contributor after only 9 months of rehab?

Also, NIL didn't start til 2021, a few years after Hurley started at UConn. You just can't compare the two timelines.

Ukwazoo3 said:

Wasn't UConn on probation when Hurley took over?

This is always conveniently forgotten. Years 2 and 3 were wiped out by covid for just about everybody, including us.

KYWC36 said:

really good thread.... and even as a champ, they lost 8 games

Yes ... it's really all about winning six (6) games in a row in March. The bottom line ...

KYWC36 said:

that must been when he had no talent and he couldn't coach or recruit....... :)

"Hell, Jesus Christ couldn't win if he didn't have talent !!" --- Johnny Orr, Iowa State, in a post-game interview ... after a big win, shirking coaching praise and shifting it to his players. Johnny Orr, the legendary Iowa State and Michigan basketball coach, was known for his colorful personality, intensity, and humorous quotes. His most famous quips often centered on his coaching philosophy, his passion for the game, and his, at times, strained relationship with referees, highlighting his immense, high-energy legacy in college basketball. Here are some of the best quotes by Johnny Orr: On Coaching and Intensity

• "This is a helluva job. Now if we just didn't have to play those damn games." — Interview before the 1980-81 season
• "My assistant Jim Hallihan told me that Lafester was tired and we needed to take him out of the game for a breather. I said, 'He's the only guy making shots, let him die out there.'" — Describing a game
• "I was the dean of coaches (in the Big Ten), now I'm a rookie. Hell, I feel younger already." — March 25, 1980, upon being hired at Iowa State

Big things are coming in year 3 and yes, Pope will get a third year. Things are happening behind the scenes that some here don’t know about yet. 👀

UK4Life#9 said:

Big things are coming in year 3 and yes, Pope will get a third year. Things are happening behind the scenes that some here don’t know about yet. 👀

Rick Pitino buying a horse farm in Lexington and becoming a mentor/assistant on Pope's staff ??? His return to Camelot !!! :cool:

theRealCeaser11 said:

Year 1: 16-17 (missed tourney) Year 2: 19-12 (may have missed tourney - COVID) Year 3: 15-8 (7 seed, lost in first round) Year 4: 23-10 (5 seed, lost in first round) Year 5: 31-8 (champ) Year 6: 37-3 (champ) To be honest, I'm personally torn on Pope.

• Gets down early in games, seems to be a game preparation issue. It's not just a problem this year or because of injuries.
• Being down 12 or more points in 13 of 19 games against power 4 seems nearly impossible.
• Subbing patterns are terrible.
• Has had some odd interviews, especially after losses
• Incredibly inconsistent game to game (throughout his career, not just here)
• Hasn't proved he can finish better than 5th in his conference
• Has missed out on top recruits and hasn't signed anyone this year (it's still unclear to me if this is a Pope problem or JMI problem or both)
• ...fill in the blank

However, I do think if you give a highly intelligent, highly passionate coach time, especially one that will give everything for the program, he can learn from his mistakes and improve. I get the frustration because I'm incredibly frustrated, and given the choice today, I may opt for a new coach, I'm not sure. I'm far from a sunshine pumper when it comes to Pope. But at the same time, I do think he has a lot of positives that can translate into championships given time to learn/progress.

• Has proven he can build an elite offense
• He's more passionate about Kentucky than any other coach out there
• Will work his *** off to get better. Will work his *** off to improve his team.
• The type of man and personality you want running your program
• He truly has dealt with an unprecedented amount of injuries, yet still made the s16 last year and has shown he can adapt this year and have some success. We wouldn't be complaining about J. Johnson or Noah playing too much if we had Lowe and/or Kam. We could handle more interior physicality with JQ.

The main point is this: Look at Hurley's first four years. Fans would've have been far more upset with him than we are with Pope - and now he's now the premier coach. Coach K completely missed the tournament his first 3 years, but they gave him time to come into his own (yes, I know today is different with the transfer portal and one-and-dones. But a 38-47 start, we would have gone nuclear). There's a big list of coaches who had rough starts before winning chips, but their schools gave them the chance to learn and improve. I think Pope can get better, I just hope he does it sooner rather than later. I'm personally willing to be patient through year 3 if that's what the administration wants to do, but if it's the same story, I'll be begging for a change. I'd also be good with a change after this year (I just don't think that'll happen)

if the only thing considered is won loss then you might be right. But since there is context to everything you are not. I guess the coach at Miami Ohio is the second coming of Rupp if there's no context? As far as your cheerleading for Pope, I'll play. What "elite offense"? Zoom? That's taught in every junior high program. The cheer leading coach is passionate too. If he's working his ass off then why does his teams quit? I'm patient too. But 60 plus games is more than enough evidence that Pope is in way too deep. His personality is not at all what's needed for UK basketball either.

megablue said:

Overall winning percentages: Wagner 38-23 62.3% Rhode Island 113-82 57.9% UConn 189-71 72.7% Overall 340-176 65.9% It is interesting to note that in the fifteen (15) years prior to this year, Hurley lost 10+ games ten (10) times. With 174 losses through last year, he averaged 11.6 losses per year. His back-to-back Championship years were 2022-23 (31-8) and 2023-24 (37-3). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Hurley#:~:text=Daniel%20S.%20Hurley%20(born%20January,coach%20of%20the%20UConn%20Huskies.

That’s not up to Kentucky standards.

Apples and Oranges. Hurley didn’t have a 22 million dollar roster in year 2. I would not even consider firing Pope after this season but it’s still apples and oranges. Comparing the 2 is intellectually dishonest.

Hurley was for UConn what Pitino was for Kentucky,,,,, come on board when program was down, build it up and won big…. Pope come after a HoF Coach , which in last 5 years underdelivered according to the standards. so far Pope overpromised , underdelivered, got overpaid and mismanaged a huge 22 mil budget…..if that was his family money , I am sure he would have been crucified by his own family….so I think BBN has all reasons to be upset. However, it’s not easy to win a Kentucky. Pope is learning on the job…. He might get there or might not….the problem is BBN has a short patience , especially after you promised greatness based on 0 NCAA tournament wins resume…. Cal would always give us hope with anew recruiting class, with shuffling of the coaching staff….that worked until it didn’t anymore…. Pope might learn from that strategy to buy himself more time ….but winning cures all problems.

What's the point you want to make? That Pope is still building toward a similar success and he just needs time? I don't see how it gets better when he had a top 2 budget of all teams and still struck out on multiple players, took and paid an injured one, didn't get any elite talent, and still hasn't signed a player for next year. So where is he building this hope where he deserves many years of below average UK standards.

theRealCeaser11 said:

Year 1: 16-17 (missed tourney) Year 2: 19-12 (may have missed tourney - COVID) Year 3: 15-8 (7 seed, lost in first round) Year 4: 23-10 (5 seed, lost in first round) Year 5: 31-8 (champ) Year 6: 37-3 (champ) To be honest, I'm personally torn on Pope.

• Gets down early in games, seems to be a game preparation issue. It's not just a problem this year or because of injuries.
• Being down 12 or more points in 13 of 19 games against power 4 seems nearly impossible.
• Subbing patterns are terrible.
• Has had some odd interviews, especially after losses
• Incredibly inconsistent game to game (throughout his career, not just here)
• Hasn't proved he can finish better than 5th in his conference
• Has missed out on top recruits and hasn't signed anyone this year (it's still unclear to me if this is a Pope problem or JMI problem or both)
• ...fill in the blank

However, I do think if you give a highly intelligent, highly passionate coach time, especially one that will give everything for the program, he can learn from his mistakes and improve. I get the frustration because I'm incredibly frustrated, and given the choice today, I may opt for a new coach, I'm not sure. I'm far from a sunshine pumper when it comes to Pope. But at the same time, I do think he has a lot of positives that can translate into championships given time to learn/progress.

• Has proven he can build an elite offense
• He's more passionate about Kentucky than any other coach out there
• Will work his *** off to get better. Will work his *** off to improve his team.
• The type of man and personality you want running your program
• He truly has dealt with an unprecedented amount of injuries, yet still made the s16 last year and has shown he can adapt this year and have some success. We wouldn't be complaining about J. Johnson or Noah playing too much if we had Lowe and/or Kam. We could handle more interior physicality with JQ.

The main point is this: Look at Hurley's first four years. Fans would've have been far more upset with him than we are with Pope - and now he's now the premier coach. Coach K completely missed the tournament his first 3 years, but they gave him time to come into his own (yes, I know today is different with the transfer portal and one-and-dones. But a 38-47 start, we would have gone nuclear). There's a big list of coaches who had rough starts before winning chips, but their schools gave them the chance to learn and improve. I think Pope can get better, I just hope he does it sooner rather than later. I'm personally willing to be patient through year 3 if that's what the administration wants to do, but if it's the same story, I'll be begging for a change. I'd also be good with a change after this year (I just don't think that'll happen)

Hurley had a regular season A10 title and an A10 conf tourney title when he got the UConn job. He had also won two NCAAT games. UConn wasn't a blue blood then. All of this to say, he had a resume worthy of the UConn job when he got it. When he took over, he took over an absolute mess as well. He also took it over pre transfer portal. All of these things matter. I know a lot of you like to exist in some world where everything is binary and black and white, like just throwing Hurley's record out there and saying, hey look...you guys would want him fired too. How about this? In today's landscape, if Danny Hurley took the UK job in 26-27 and had two years like his first two yrs at UConn...I'd absolutely want him fired. But that's nowhere close to the landscape and situation when he took the UConn job. And remember, he actually had a resume worthy of the UConn job...at the time.

did hurley have 22 mil tho

JwUKFan11 said:

So where is he building this hope where he deserves many years of below average UK standards.

I haven’t heard any Kentucky fans other than UKcowboys say they certainly want Pope more than one more year in a “prove it” situation. I think even the most optimistic of us are struggling with serious doubts about Pope. Signing on for a third year doesn’t mean being 100% certain Pope is the man — at this point, he may or may not be but it doesn’t look promising. He has faced unprecedented injuries and that’s worth giving a mulligan for, especially when his first year (despite flaws) exceeded preseason expectations.

UK4Life#9 said:

Big things are coming in year 3 and yes, Pope will get a third year. Things are happening behind the scenes that some here don’t know about yet. 👀

You can’t say that and then not tell us lol.

This is like playing the stock market, sell early when things are down and you might regret it. Hold on because you "believe" in the stock and you might regret it also. In the end you have to evaluate the product on the floor, what are we doing good? Are we improving? is the coach locked in and has the current product locked in? Is he getting 100 percent out of the guys that we have on the floor? The tough answer to most of those is no, the players seem to not care at times and the tough things no one wants to do like block out, rebound and fight through screens are not being done. AND THAT requires a coach to DEMAND IT. EITHER you do it or you do not play. If they were doing the hard things and just not good enough on offense or just not athletic enough to win then fine we go another year.