If he was on the Hall this year, you don't think at least some quasi-reasonable argument could be made that he should be a preseason all league honorable mention candidate? Projecting his improvement as a junior and with where the Big East is this year from a talent standpoint?Not based on this
Isaiah Coleman - Oklahoma State Cowboys Guard - ESPN
View the profile of Oklahoma State Cowboys Guard Isaiah Coleman on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.www.espn.com
Isaiah Coleman 28 & 8 vs Auburn
- Thread starter jklings99
- Start date
I go back and forth on Coleman. He was pretty clearly worth $1.5 million. I said as much during the season. But I'm also kind of glad to be moving on completely from last year's laughingstock, and Coleman played down the stretch like a me-first chucker who couldn't be trusted to lead a rebuild.
Gun to my head, I would have paid what it took to retain him. But I also understand not doing it.
Gun to my head, I would have paid what it took to retain him. But I also understand not doing it.
I’m glad Willard learned from his DUI. I lost a niece to a drunk driver. She was a freshman at Rutgers and driving back to campus from her parents house on a Sunday afternoon. I hope Coleman learns something from this too.Exactly.
Moving Past His Past – Kevin Willard
When I was in high school, my class went to our auditorium and sat down for a presentation from MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving). After a video that likely swayed no one, we had a speaker that …tyroneshoelaces.wordpress.com
You said preseason not postseason so that's why I posted his stats. No way he deserves or would be on any Big East team at this point.
I think people are/were too tough on Coleman. He was a sophomore thrust into a leading role on a historically terrible team. He had some excellent games and some terrible games like young players often do. He nursed injuries throughout, played a ton of minutes and got beat up as the focus of opposing defenses during Big East play.
He averaged 17.0 points, 5.9 rebounds & 1.4 steals in the Big East as a sophomore. His FG% sucked because he often took ill-advised shots like players on terrible offensive teams do. I never felt he was shooting selfishly. Sha wanted him shooting, who else was going to shoot? When you look at his BE play, you can break it down into 3 parts.
He started the BE with 5 excellent games where he averaged 23.2 points - 6.6 rebounds and shot 44 FG% - 43 3FG% - 83 FT%
Then things got rough. He became the target of everyone's defense, Chaunce was lost for the season. Coleman hurt his back missing 1 game and had 2 of his worst games when he returned. It all added up to a brutal 6 game stretch where he averaged 11.8 pts - 5.2 rebs and shot 26 FG% - 12 3FG% - 73 FT%
He was much better from then on, Dual was better at PG. In final 9 games Coleman averaged 17.9 points - 5.9 reb, shot 39 FG% - 24 3FG% - 67 FT%
I think as a Junior in his 3rd year with Sha and with a dynamic PG like Clark, he'd be a good player for us and much more efficient. I would have gone $1.2M for him as he's a bonafide BE starter and that is the going rate. I don't like losing our best player every year and I don't like that we still can't pay BE starter rates to anyone. If we wanted to move on from Coleman fine, but someone worthy should have been signed for $1-1.2 Million. That's what this team lacks, someone who can get you 20 points on any given night and be a threat on all 3 levels.
He averaged 17.0 points, 5.9 rebounds & 1.4 steals in the Big East as a sophomore. His FG% sucked because he often took ill-advised shots like players on terrible offensive teams do. I never felt he was shooting selfishly. Sha wanted him shooting, who else was going to shoot? When you look at his BE play, you can break it down into 3 parts.
He started the BE with 5 excellent games where he averaged 23.2 points - 6.6 rebounds and shot 44 FG% - 43 3FG% - 83 FT%
Then things got rough. He became the target of everyone's defense, Chaunce was lost for the season. Coleman hurt his back missing 1 game and had 2 of his worst games when he returned. It all added up to a brutal 6 game stretch where he averaged 11.8 pts - 5.2 rebs and shot 26 FG% - 12 3FG% - 73 FT%
He was much better from then on, Dual was better at PG. In final 9 games Coleman averaged 17.9 points - 5.9 reb, shot 39 FG% - 24 3FG% - 67 FT%
I think as a Junior in his 3rd year with Sha and with a dynamic PG like Clark, he'd be a good player for us and much more efficient. I would have gone $1.2M for him as he's a bonafide BE starter and that is the going rate. I don't like losing our best player every year and I don't like that we still can't pay BE starter rates to anyone. If we wanted to move on from Coleman fine, but someone worthy should have been signed for $1-1.2 Million. That's what this team lacks, someone who can get you 20 points on any given night and be a threat on all 3 levels.
I think he'd be in the conversation for at least a preseason all league honorable mention nod based on the statistics he put up last year and projecting improvement from last year into this one. Budd Clark has already been called a "star" in multiple preseason posts and compared to some of the best PGs we've had over the last 30 years. Our roster has been touted as having 10-11 legit Big East players, hence Sha wanting to play depth. I think Coleman coming off last year, if he was still here, would be someone folks thought should be in consideration for a preseason all league honorable mention.
To add to this, Coleman scored a quarter of our points for the season and nearly double any individual player. Our second leading scorer by average missed nearly half the season. Our third missed a quarter of the season. Coleman also averaged five MPG more than anybody else (and players two and three on that list are the two guys just referenced).
Yes, he took a lot of shots but as mentioned above who did you want shooting? Beyond that, how many times was he given the ball with five on the shot clock and asked to create something out of nothing?
I said above having a competent point guard would have helped Coleman and I'll add if we had any kind of a post threat, that also would have helped a lot as well.
He's flawed to say the least -- most players are in some ways. But he would have been the best player on our team and one of two guys with a legit BE track record.
Last edited:
Terribly sorry to learn that about your niece. My deep sympathies for you and her parents.
Probably another situation of when the money became available to Holloway. Could we have retained Coleman and added him to Clark, then had enough to lure Hines in? Not sure if he still going to load depth the way he did while Hines remained undecided. Having Coleman would've removed probably 3 of the players Holloway signed on the wings/SG. But ideally those 3 would be a really encouraging trio to have together.
In HINDSIGHT, if the reality was Coleman or Hines, I'd rather have Hines. What Coleman provided is easier to replace than what I think Hines can give us if I'm not wildly overrating Hines. And I was high on Coleman, legit All-BE talent in right circumstances, IMO. Last year's circumstances were ridiculous to judge a WF on.
Coleman should have been retained. He had a lot of potential and was our best player by far. But it was such a bad year, Sha was a nutjob on the court and Coleman and his handlers wanted out and I don't blame him or them at all.
We need to learn from this and keep our top players going forward. Should be a top priority of our GM, oh sorry our coaching staff and admins.
It's the only way we can build a program in this environment.
We need to learn from this and keep our top players going forward. Should be a top priority of our GM, oh sorry our coaching staff and admins.
It's the only way we can build a program in this environment.