Military Strikes on Iran Imminent

[ANEW]

I think you are also speaking to Trump tariffs

Trump considers all of the supply side national emergency issues and the Supreme Court thinks of them as a WOKE ISSUE

We need to make sure USA has every needed resource for defending this country being procured in this country

I agree, or if absolutely not possible to sustain economic production we need to stockpile raw materials similar to the strategic petroleum reserve and in quantities that could sustain high intensity conflict against a peer. I'd feel better if, in the case of strategic raw materials or critical manufacturing capability, that for the materials/componenets stockpiled because of domestic production challenges, that we at least maintain the ability to ramp domestic production in a reasonable period of time if we no kidding had to.

 

[Hotshoe]

Full blown TDS is a normal condition for anyone with a moral compass and you don't have to be a wacko liberal to have the syndrome. Being a decent person is all it takes.

Oh yes, the moral high ground. Lmao. You libs actually believe your own bullsh-t.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

Indeed I am. That doesn't make me uninterested in what the stated, WPA required justification is, and whether that justification is the sort of thing the WPA had in mind, or for that matter, what Article II had in mind. Candidly, I was hoping for better. Because I'm also a citizen, who votes.

To be balanced here, I'd also note that Warner's comments this morning about 'shifting justifications' play a little fast and loose with things. And I say that with some degree of respect for Warner (which is seemingly deteriorating by the day as he is up for reelection this fall and has decided to step into the limelight much more than his otherwise professional approach has historically entailed.)

As I noted earlier, we've crossed the Rubicon (no pun intended), and so the real question now is what we make of it in the next sixty (or more, if Congress allows) days.

My comment here is the last 5 or so Presidents used the WPA without much of any complaints from anyone.

Mostly quite ineffectively I might ADD

So complaining about Trump after two brilliant military actions of Midnight Hammer and Venezuela and now on his third major engagement which based on present progress is a world class success based on the mission statement.

The WPA has stipulations of I think your mention of 60 days

All of this falls under WPA

If folks don’t like the use of the WPA by the past 7 or 8 Presidents there is a Democratic process to follow

 

[Aardvark86]

My comment here is the last 5 or so Presidents used the WPA without much of any complaints from anyone.

Mostly quite ineffectively I might ADD

So complaining about Trump after two brilliant military actions of Midnight Hammer and Venezuela and now on his third major engagement which based on present progress is a world class success based on the mission statement.

The WPA has stipulations of I think your mention of 60 days

All of this falls under WPA

If folks don’t like the use of the WPA by the past 7 or 8 Presidents there is a Democratic process to follow

Oh don't get me wrong, presidents push the limits on military force authority all the time. I also agree that the immediate near-obsession with WPA in the media was maybe a little much (though maybe not, given the scale of what we've been seeing), and that in any event they've put forward the justification as required by WPA. So now, as you note, the political processes get their chance.

I am merely noting that this particular justification strikes me as somewhat unique relative to more historic practices in that invokes third party interests rather than US interests.

Use of force is always a terribly complicated issue from a constitutional and practical perspective, if for no other reason than a "declaration of war" has become a largely obsolete thing in the modern world.

 

[Moogy]

Nothing like a wacko liberal who hates MTG using MTG. Same thing atheists do regarding Christians. Talk about hypocrites. Full blown TDS.

It's called using logic. You should try it some time ... just once ... go ahead ... give it a go. Baby's first steps ...

 

[bdgan]

Oh yes, the moral high ground. Lmao. You libs actually believe your own bullsh-t.

You should try to understand things from their perspective. They've lost all of their rights.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

Oh don't get me wrong, presidents push the limits on military force authority all the time. I also agree that the immediate near-obsession with WPA in the media was maybe a little much (though maybe not, given the scale of what we've been seeing), and that in any event they've put forward the justification as required by WPA. So now, as you note, the political processes get their chance.

I am merely noting that this particular justification strikes me as somewhat unique relative to more historic practices in that invokes third party interests rather than US interests.

Use of force is always a terribly complicated issue from a constitutional and practical perspective, if for no other reason than a "declaration of war" has become a largely obsolete thing in the modern world.

On who all benefits from these strikes

I do think the US has a huge benefit however the huge benefactors are the Mid East countries like Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia , Iran itself if we can have a Democratic pro-western government erupt with being denied, de missiles , land essentially have only minimal military with a US pact for protection

The US will benefit in a huge way if this action brings Mideast peace as we can then pivot to China and NK

You may think I am crazy in my thinking but in less than 10 years Russia will ally itself with the USA against China

We are cultural more like Russia than Russia is to China

 

[ANEW]

Use of force is always a terribly complicated issue from a constitutional and practical perspective, if for no other reason than a "declaration of war" has become a largely obsolete thing in the modern world.

Sorry for jumping into a two way conversation, but the war declaration is NOT obsolete. So far this convo has focused on only one part... external use of force. But a formal war declaration does so much more domestically. It's easy to forget about that part since it's been since WWII.

Q. AI, what can the government do domestically when there is a war declaration than if not?

A. A formal declaration of war by Congress activates numerous statutory powers, granting the federal government significantly broader authority over the economy, communication, transportation, and civil liberties compared to peacetime. Key actions include controlling manufacturing, seizing foreign-owned property, seizing transportation assets, and restricting civil liberties.
Key Domestic Powers Triggered by a Declaration of War:

• Economic Controls: The government can direct private industry to prioritize defense contracts, take over manufacturing plants, and control, seize, or regulate foreign-owned assets.
• Communication & Transportation: The President can seize, control, or censor radio, telegraph, and other communication systems, as well as manage transportation networks (railroads, shipping) to support the war effort.
• Alien Enemy Act: The government can apprehend, restrain, or remove "alien enemies"—nationals of the hostile country—within the United States.
• Military & Manpower: The government can initiate a draft, increase the size of the armed forces beyond peacetime limits, and utilize the militia.
• National Emergency Powers: In addition to the declaration of war itself, a formal declaration often triggers the legal basis for the President to declare a national emergency, which unlocks over 100 special statutory provisions.

Edit to add: Without a formal declaration of war you don't get all the above. You can absolutely have our military overseas fighting for exended periods of time. You just dont get all these added benefits that make the job of fighting easier and the military more effective.

 

[Aardvark86]

On who all benefits from these strikes

I do think the US has a huge benefit however the huge benefactors are the Mid East countries like Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia , Iran itself if we can have a Democratic pro-western government erupt with being denied, de missiles , land essentially have only minimal military with a US pact for protection

The US will benefit in a huge way if this action brings Mideast peace as we can then pivot to China and NK

You may think I am crazy in my thinking but in less than 10 years Russia will ally itself with the USA against China

We are cultural more like Russia than Russia is to China

Agreed - as I said originally, this is potential 'fall of Berlin Wall" significance, depending on how it plays out. I agree that Russia is more culturally aligned with the west, but I have my doubts about geopolitical alignment, inasmuch as I doubt they view us as a trustworthy partner given the last 35 years or so.

 

[Chumpsky]

Anyone who acts like you do online has serious mental issues. You wouldn't slap anyone. You're just an obnoxious mouth.

Which mental issues? I've slapped before, and I will slap again. My only issue with your last sentence is the "just" qualifier.

 

[Chumpsky]

Love the fact that so many Maga amplifiers are calling out this ********. They still need to be herded and used as cattle after this is all over, but it's a step in the right direction.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

@ANEW

Dear Sir:
if you were apologizing for jumping into my conversation please let me say this is in my opinion an open forum where when we post everything we say is open to anyone on here commenting

so as far as I am concerned take the leap of faith as much as needed and speak your mind.

I will confess I have placed on ignore a substantial number of folks as I felt the interaction was more of a penis size contest comparison than attempting a civil reasonable discussion to make us all more educated and informed

That said I still keep debating as too being on here as I have some other hobbies this time may be better used

 

[Chumpsky]

Nothing like a wacko liberal who hates MTG using MTG. Same thing atheists do regarding Christians. Talk about hypocrites. Full blown TDS.

Gee whiz, not hypocrisy. Trump supporters hate hypocrisy more than they hate serial pedophilic rape.

 

[Aardvark86]

Sorry for jumping into a two way conversation, but the war declaration is NOT obsolete. So far this convo has focused on only one part... external use of force. But a formal war declaration does so much more domestically. It's easy to forget about that part since it's been since WWII.

Q. AI, what can the government do domestically when there is a war declaration than if not?

A. A formal declaration of war by Congress activates numerous statutory powers, granting the federal government significantly broader authority over the economy, communication, transportation, and civil liberties compared to peacetime. Key actions include controlling manufacturing, seizing foreign-owned property, seizing transportation assets, and restricting civil liberties.
Key Domestic Powers Triggered by a Declaration of War:

• Economic Controls: The government can direct private industry to prioritize defense contracts, take over manufacturing plants, and control, seize, or regulate foreign-owned assets.
• Communication & Transportation: The President can seize, control, or censor radio, telegraph, and other communication systems, as well as manage transportation networks (railroads, shipping) to support the war effort.
• Alien Enemy Act: The government can apprehend, restrain, or remove "alien enemies"—nationals of the hostile country—within the United States.
• Military & Manpower: The government can initiate a draft, increase the size of the armed forces beyond peacetime limits, and utilize the militia.
• National Emergency Powers: In addition to the declaration of war itself, a formal declaration often triggers the legal basis for the President to declare a national emergency, which unlocks over 100 special statutory provisions.

no worries, and I certainly recognize/agree it carries more domestic implications as well, though I wonder a bit whether some of these formal expansions are really that expanded from practical reality (eg, telecom, emergency declarations, etc.)

That said, I don't see anybody - even trump - seeking a congressional declaration of war for the purpose of expanding domestic powers, and I also don't see even a favorable congress making one for that reason. Beyond that, in the international/military sphere, it's sorta become an archaic concept. I'm pretty sure that aside from a couple of conflicts in Africa and Israel-Hamas (which is an oddball in that it involves a non-state actor), no country has formally declared war on another in the 21st century. I suppose that's a long way of saying that if I were writing a new constitution today, I'd probably have to reframe the allocation of conflict powers in a way that doesn't entail such declarations.

 

[Moogy]

Rubio is Sec of State

You are a poster on TI

Figure it out

No doubt you were as deferential to past Secretaries of State.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

Agreed - as I said originally, this is potential 'fall of Berlin Wall" significance, depending on how it plays out. I agree that Russia is more culturally aligned with the west, but I have my doubts about geopolitical alignment, inasmuch as I doubt they view us as a trustworthy partner given the last 35 years or so.

It’s a long shot but I think China will push Russia to our arms as the Chinese and Russians have been in disputes for generations.

Time will tell.

 

[ANEW]

On who all benefits from these strikes

I do think the US has a huge benefit however the huge benefactors are the Mid East countries like Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia , Iran itself if we can have a Democratic pro-western government erupt with being denied, de missiles , land essentially have only minimal military with a US pact for protection

The US will benefit in a huge way if this action brings Mideast peace as we can then pivot to China and NK

You may think I am crazy in my thinking but in less than 10 years Russia will ally itself with the USA against China

We are cultural more like Russia than Russia is to China

I agree with you 100%. What if in the 1990s we woud have been bold enough and had the capacity enough to prevent NK from getting nukes? We wouldn't have to have all the forces we have in south korea and in the area to deter them. Maybe the milllions and millions of north koreans wouldn't be destined to live under oppression? Interesting to think, IMO.

We're going do somethign with cuba next. We won't invade. They are being strangled every which way and are not islamic crazies. Its past time for a change in cuba, they know it. We're just going to help them make it.

 

[baltimorened]

Bombs? No. We're precision bombing and not carpet bombing WWII style. That's not the issue. I think we're also capable of ramping production of add-on precision guidence kits, and have domestic capacity to produce fuses that can ramp to replenish stockpiles.

But with that said, the US has to currently rely on imported materials to make fuzes. Sounds crazy, but ask AI. I know the Admin/DoW is working on stockpiling that stuff and establishing domestic sources of production but we're not there yet.

we do want to increase jobs...3 shifts will do that

 

[ANEW]

Lol.

Israeli forces carried out an airstrike on a building hosting Iran's Council of Experts, the clerical body responsible for selecting a new supreme leader.
The 88-member Council of Experts, which holds constitutional authority to choose Iran's next supreme leader, was meeting when the Israeli Air Force struck the site, Axios reported.

Details remain unclear, including how many clerics were present and the extent of any casualties or damage.

Israel Strike Hits Iran Clerics Choosing New Leader

 

[PawPride]

Newsmax? Eww that's nasty work.

 

[Aardvark86]

I agree with you 100%. What if in the 1990s we woud have been bold enough and had the capacity enough to prevent NK from getting nukes? We wouldn't have to have all the forces we have in south korea and in the area to deter them. Maybe the milllions and millions of north koreans wouldn't be destined to live under oppression? Interesting to think, IMO.

We're going do somethign with cuba next. We won't invade. They are being strangled every which way and are not islamic crazies. Its past time for a change in cuba, they know it. We're just going to help them make it.

Do they even have infrastructure to bomb in Cuba?

 

[ANEW]

Do they even have infrastructure to bomb in Cuba?

I seriously doubt that they do.

 

[ANEW]

Newsmax? Eww that's nasty work.

It's news reporting . They credited Axios. We'll see if more confirmation comes out.

Say what you want but Newsmax has been experiencing rapid growth and scored the first interview in Venezuela with the new admin after we took out Maduro.

edit: being reported by cnn and fox as well

 

[PawPride]

It's news reporting . They credited Axios. We'll see if more confirmation comes out.

Say what you want but Newsmax has been experiencing rapid growth and scored the first interview in Venezuela with the new admin after we took out Maduro.

edit: being reported by cnn and fox as well

Well, yeah Newsmax is pretty much state sponsored propaganda and there's no surprise they got the first interview with the Venezuelan gov't (who most likely had been in talks with the admin before we attacked Venezuela.

Yeah I googled it and saw some videos on reddit of the compound post-bombing. Not calling the reporting false, I just don't like Newsmax because they are very much a heavily biased group.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Cue the Superman movie scenario... (that said, I have my doubts that even the iranians would be dumb enough to build an underground nuclear testing lab in one of the more seismically active areas in their country, if not the broader region)

I hear you, you're thinking pocket universe?

 

[Aardvark86]

It's news reporting . They credited Axios. We'll see if more confirmation comes out.

Say what you want but Newsmax has been experiencing rapid growth and scored the first interview in Venezuela with the new admin after we took out Maduro.

edit: being reported by cnn and fox as well

cnn has reported the bombing of that site, but states that iran said it was evacuated just before the strike. who knows.

 

[Aardvark86]

I hear you, you're thinking pocket universe?

Actually, Casa del Lex, Lutherville, Otisberg... Otisberg? OTISBERG?!

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Actually, Casa del Lex, Lutherville, Otisberg... Otisberg? OTISBERG?!

Really, really enjoyed the new Superman and thought Holt did a great job, but man Gene Hackman was definitely the most fun Lex.

 

[Aardvark86]

Really, really enjoyed the new Superman and thought Holt did a great job, but man Gene Hackman was definitely the most fun Lex.

The other day, Mrs. A and I were having a discussion about constant requests to "round up" at the cash register. I told her that aside from the question of why on earth I would ever want to fund somebody else's charitable choices, that scam is as old as Superman III with Richard Pryor.

 

[Aardvark86]

And there it is, per my comment the other day...

Trump cites decades-old events as rationale for Iran war​

By Kevin Liptak

In justifying his attack on Iran, President Donald Trump is citing events from more than four decades ago, claiming the country has a long record of “evil ideology.”
“It’s a bad seed. And somebody had to do it and it should have been done sometime during a 47-year period. Because so much death has been caused by them. So much unbelievable death,” he said in the Oval Office.
Trump raised two incidents from the last century: the 1979 Iran hostage crisis, in which 52 US citizens were held captive for 444 days, and the 1983 bombing of a Marine compound in Beirut, Lebanon, that killed 241 US service personnel.
“When you look at the barracks … when you look at the hostages, when you look at a lot of hostages, when you look at all of the problems, they were really a purveyor of terror all over the world for many, many years,” Trump said. “And it’s something that had to be done.”

 

[UrHuckleberry]

The other day, Mrs. A and I were having a discussion about constant requests to "round up" at the cash register. I told her that aside from the question of why on earth I would ever want to fund somebody else's charitable choices, that scam is as old as Superman III with Richard Pryor.

Office Space stole it first

 

[fatpiggy]

17% is high, wow.

 

[PAWrocka]

Really, really enjoyed the new Superman and thought Holt did a great job, but man Gene Hackman was definitely the most fun Lex.

Oh agreed!!!!!!!! Making Lex Luther a ruthless real estate developer was an odd choice, but it worked in the 80s I suppose.

with DC now under the Paramount umbrella … I’m encouraged.

 

[dpic73]

From Karachi to Beirut, Khamenei’s death sends shockwaves across the Shiite world

The killing of Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei in joint U.S.-Israeli strikes has sparked anger across Shiite communities worldwide and is raising fears of wider unrest. Protests have spread fast

www.nbcrightnow.com

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Oh agreed!!!!!!!! Making Lex Luther a ruthless real estate developer was an odd choice, but it worked in the 80s I suppose.

with DC now under the Paramount umbrella … I’m encouraged.

Think they did a good job selecting Gunn. Always enjoy his blend of action and humor. While I loved Cavill as Superman, just because I like the actor a lot, I thought the tone of the new Superman was perfect. Snyder's superman always felt other or like an alien, whereas Gunn's really leaned into his humanity. While his parents were a bit much ha (in addition to both being alive), they were undeniably human and good, salt of the earth people, and who he was personality wise was perfectly explained by them.

Ok, sorry, back to arguing about Iran.

 

[baltimorened]

cnn has reported the bombing of that site, but states that iran said it was evacuated just before the strike. who knows.

I don't know how the Israelis know with certainty who was killed so quickly. Of course I thought that when they announced Komenhi (sic) was killed.

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

I agree with you 100%. What if in the 1990s we woud have been bold enough and had the capacity enough to prevent NK from getting nukes? We wouldn't have to have all the forces we have in south korea and in the area to deter them. Maybe the milllions and millions of north koreans wouldn't be destined to live under oppression? Interesting to think, IMO.

We're going do somethign with cuba next. We won't invade. They are being strangled every which way and are not islamic crazies. It’s olving the past time for a change in cuba, they know it. We're just going to help them make it.

Solving the Mid East problem and having peace and prosperity in the area will allow a huge pivot to confront China

Also the kicking China out of the Western Hemisphere is huge

 

[PalmettoTiger1]

we do want to increase jobs...3 shifts will do that

we do want to increase jobs...3 shifts will do that

I personally would like to see carpet bombing brought back into style with the mighty B52s making many runs

 

[JohnHughsPartner]

Bada$$

 

[baltimorened]

Solving the Mid East problem and having peace and prosperity in the area will allow a huge pivot to confront China

Also the kicking China out of the Western Hemisphere is huge

what if in the 1930's we would have been bold enough to take out Hitler and the leaders of the third Reich? there would be a totally different world today, might not even be a Jewish state....no baby boomers.....