This is an issue. The philosophy has to change IMO. Ignoring the 3 seems insane in this day and age. Isn’t there this whole 3-and-D player type out there? Lol.
But he believes he could do the same thing and win with more money bc he’d have a PF etc.
NIL Usage
- Thread starter joeyklings
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But he believes he could do the same thing and win with more money bc he’d have a PF etc.
Thank you for further supporting my point. Shaheen is operating at a significant disadvantage money wise. People should look at all the teams spending big money in their NIL and are performing worse that Holloway.
Check the Trove tomorrow.
JD has some NIL stuff and I'm checking with my contact to see if I can supplement his info.
JD has some NIL stuff and I'm checking with my contact to see if I can supplement his info.
This is exactly the point. Is Holloway perfect, no. Not many coaches are. It’s fair to criticize him and offer observations.
But according to Carino even with our roughly $6million budget, we are bottom four in the BE. Yet he’s out performing several big spending schools/coaches.
Just imagine what mid level B1G, SEC, ACC, B12 schools are spending. Give Sha $10 million and see what he can do. It’s really the only way to objectively evaluate him.
You can play this game with every program, every year now. Pre NIL, we didn’t know what these kids were getting for recruiting battles, at least most of us. Now we don’t know with NIL. For example, it shocked me that Edwards got the bag that Lloyd Dobler said. I don’t doubt Lloyd heard or read this, but that surprised me.
Of course it’s a factor. But there are lots and lots of coaches based on track record that you are putting before Sha if you want to play that specific game.
I don’t put much stock in what Carino says about Sha or our program on stuff like this, especially if it’s a scenario where he can help make him or the team look better comparatively.
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He’s not outperforming several big spending schools!!!
Marquette didn’t use the portal.
Xavier has a rookie head coach.
If Bizjack played against us we get swept.
You could say he’s outperformed Gtown & Prov (who played several games w/out their best player)
We’ll never know but it’s possible $6M (assuming he spent it all) would be 8th.
Connecticut
St. John’s
Villanova
Georgetown
Creighton
Providence
All spent more. Idk about Maquette they have a lot more money but Shaka is quirky.
I would assume we spent more than Butler, DePaul, and maybe Xavier.
Connecticut
St. John’s
Villanova
Georgetown
Creighton
Providence
All spent more. Idk about Maquette they have a lot more money but Shaka is quirky.
I would assume we spent more than Butler, DePaul, and maybe Xavier.
Very little would change. We'd still suck offensively and be good defensively. It's not always about money.
You could argue that he’s using his dollars on defense and they have the best defensive rating in the conference and they are in 4th.
In the other hand, we sometimes think we have an unlucky injury bug, but they have dodged that bullet this year.
It’s nice to keep saying give him X number of dollars and see what he can do, it sounds incredible but where are these dollars coming from? They are not magically falling off a tree in South Orange. Let’s accept reality. Here’s the job, find a way to make it onto the big stage at Seton Hall spending 6 or maybe 7 million. That’s the job. We don’t want to imagine what you’ll do with more. We don’t want say Crowne is a good job. As for this year, a lot of coaches have underperformed based on how they spent, but don’t count on that year after year.
we have 3 games, 3 opportunities. Find a way. We control our own destiny right now. Some teams are out of chances for big wins. We have an opportunity for at least 3 UConn St. John’s and the 1v4 matchup at msg if we can get by Creighton
Weren’t we told that we were in the upper half with NIL and now we are told we are in the bottom two?
Who said we were upper half? We were mid tier at best. Will anyone dispute that there are seven BE programs that by most objective observers are better resourced than SHU?
I agree with your last paragraph, we have a chance, a long shot; who’d a thunk that in November. But if you think we can compete consistently for top 4/5 in the BE on $6 million, you are deluding yourself and will be continually frustrated.
Gun to head, of course I agree with you. But we don't know the disparity, and we also don't know if we land a certain caliber of player over another school even if we had more. This NIL stuff is a black-box, and programs and supporters play it to their advantage publicly. I mean Kelvin Sampson said at a press conference less than a month ago that Houston is "poor". Does anyone really think that a roster with Sharp, Uzan, Kingston Fleming, Cenac and Tugler, plus their bench and depth pieces, is really hurting that much in the NIL department? Maybe they aren't Kansas, but I'm sure they are certainly fine.
Not sure what we can do on 6 mil but if the only hope is for the rest of the conference to be terrible why even spend the 6 mil.
how much more ugly can the basketball be with 3 mil. I don’t see much better play that got us 19 wins this year, I see a lot more crap from other teams that allowed mediocrity to be successful
Dan didn’t say several times we were in the upper half and nil problems were a thing of the past?!
Definitely not upper half. 7 are definitely ahead of us and Xavier is thought to be slightly ahead of us also. The thought is there are 3 tiers of BE budgets and we are firmly in the bottom/3rd tier.
I think heading into last year's Portal the belief by our Admins was that we would be in the middle of the pack, close to average, but inflated spending knocked us down a peg to the bottom third of the league.
Based on Felt's last interview, he concedes we need to raise our commitment this year to be Average. How much he is able to raise the budget is the big question. I'd expect inflation to continue and all of the BE schools will raise their commitments based on the terrible showing of the league and the remarks from Pitino and Hurley, among others, that all BE teams need to step up their budgets.
Pitino said teams need to spend 10M and Hurley said 8-9M. 8-9M needs to be our budget. We can do it if we make it our top priority. We are a small school but we are in sound financial shape as a whole even though we've wasted multimillions in mismanagement and lawyer fees the last few years. Some of those cases are complete now so less money is being burned for lawyers.
We have invested heavily into improving facilities over the last decade. Now that those projects are complete, we can afford to invest another $2-3M into our flagship program. Give Sha the average budget and see what he does. He's heading into Year 5 so we need to know what he can do when money isn't a deterrent. We also need to invest to try to turn around the trend of terrible attendance we've seen the last few years.
No I did not.
NIL has greatly improved and we are no longer where we were two years ago with under $2M or so. So in that sense it's not the same issues as it was. But we still have a ways to go. As I have been told only 2 teams are (slightly) under our NIL spending. We are in a small bunch of teams at the next level. And there are about 5 or so teams that dwarf our spending.
It's better than it was. Way better. But even with the hoped for bump of about $8M we will still be in the lower half of the conference.
I absolutely never said we were in the top half of the conference. Not even close.
I did say that NIL will not be the problem it was in the past when we were way below the rest of the conference with embarrassing numbers. That will never be a problem again.
That said, we still have to add to our total. And unfortunately our booster contributions in comparison with the rest of the league have been pitiful.
We are spending nearly the same amounts as all the other schools. But when you add in the donations from alums, fans, etc, that's where we fall far behind.
I did say that NIL will not be the problem it was in the past when we were way below the rest of the conference with embarrassing numbers. That will never be a problem again.
That said, we still have to add to our total. And unfortunately our booster contributions in comparison with the rest of the league have been pitiful.
We are spending nearly the same amounts as all the other schools. But when you add in the donations from alums, fans, etc, that's where we fall far behind.
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Ok fair enough
So over the summer and after we were allowed to use revenue sharing $$ it was reported here we were only going to move up to 8/11? I don’t remember that but that’s fair.
How many programs have Seton Hall’s NIL and are doing better? How may are spending a lot more and are doing worse. NIL is the biggest factor in determining success although that’s no guarantee. Although we will never know for sure because this information is not public, my opinion is that Seton Hall is far outperforming their NIL budget.
I don't remember if I posted this, but preseason I was told the school's NIL firgure was higher than what UConn was spending. But then you add in their donations to that figure and they are way above ours. We're not even in the same stratosphere.
We know enough to know that if it was $50,000, that was a lot. Even if you want to double that, it was a fraction of what a top kid makes today. If you wanted to play ball, it was affordable for everyone.
And I wouldn't assume that at all. That figure was largely theoretical, given that Holloway was unable to pledge any of it until the courts affirmed it was OK. By that time, most of the key talent was gone, although it probably did help us rent Hines for the year.
I don't buy that. I wouldn't say that Holloway is an offensive guru, but he's forgotten more about basketball than anyone on this board ever knew. He's a good coach and he knows that guys who can hit the 3 help teams win games. They just happen to cost a lot of money -- the kind of money that when your AD says, "Yes, we have it, but no, you can't spend it yet" -- and then you watch then commit to other teams.
That is what I was trying to say. You said it much better.
The offense will improve with better players, which we saw with Willard, but I think the philosophy is as much a problem as the players. It's just sooooo slow and so reliant on inefficient mid-range shots.
Totally agree, but I figure that's because of what and who we have on the team -- the one that shoots 0-18 from 3. The tempo could be quickened, though.
I'm not even sure about that. Dan posted that Kyle Anderson went to UCLA because he got $2M and all sorts of other expensive perks for his family. First I'd ever heard of that specific number and I've been on our boards forever. Which means that we also were willing to spend a huge amount of money for him, pre-NIL.
I don't know, and I don't think anyone here knows either. I think common sense provides us some insight on this stuff. But we don't know, and we also don't know who Seton Hall could have had with our budget and either (a) passed on or (b) simply missed. Again, I think Sha is doing a good job this year after an abysmal one last year. But if you want to take that to conclude that Sha is the best coach in the Big East, it is a bridge too far for me.
That's how they select for the NCAA Tournament?
Several perspectives to judge the season:
1) Compared to last season, it's a huge success.
2) Compared to all of minor league basketball, it's decent overall but only 1 good win and that win was not as good as it it now then when the game was actually played, although that means little in the eyes of the NET.
3) Compared to being 14-2 and then going 5-7 in a down Big East, it's been bad.
At large teams will have spent significantly. There won’t be any Billy Bean Oakland A teams to speak of. You can’t get at large on the cheap.
Richard is already following in daddy's footsteps. Four head coaching jobs in only 14 years. Before that, six assistant gigs in only eight years. He'll be on to his next stop quickly.
In the Big East, no one is doing more with less RevShare/NIL money than Sha this year.
These are all educated guesses at each team's Budget but Sha has 3.17 Wins per Million Spent to lead the BE. SH tied with UConn at 1.5 Big East Wins per Million spent.
| Team | Budget | Wins | BE Wins | Wins/$ | BE Wins/$ |
| SJ | 12.0 | 22 | 15 | 1.83 | 1.25 |
| Uconn | 10.0 | 25 | 15 | 2.50 | 1.50 |
| Nova | 9.0 | 21 | 12 | 2.33 | 1.33 |
| Gtown | 9.0 | 13 | 5 | 1.44 | 0.56 |
| Prov | 9.0 | 12 | 5 | 1.33 | 0.56 |
| Creighton | 8.0 | 14 | 8 | 1.75 | 1.00 |
| Marquette | 8.0 | 10 | 5 | 1.25 | 0.63 |
| Xavier | 6.5 | 13 | 5 | 2.00 | 0.77 |
| Seton | 6.0 | 19 | 9 | 3.17 | 1.50 |
| Butler | 5.0 | 15 | 6 | 3.00 | 1.20 |
| DePaul | 5.0 | 14 | 6 | 2.80 | 1.20 |
| Avg | 8.0 |