I actually think your confusing rape and sexual harassment in terms of the meaning of consensual relations. Clearly this isn’t rape as it was all by phone. PWhen you move into the sexual harassment space, I’m not sure how much matters if they had a consentual relationship prior to the allegations? One of the articles indicated he badgered her with 4 calls in one day after she had clearly asked him to back off. Even if they were romantically involved before (via phone relationship) if what they have recorded indicates that she told him to leave her alone and he didn’t respect her wishes on that day - based on the many harrassment videos I’ve sat through for work, I believe that alone could meet the legal definition of harassment. Technically he is her boss (even if indirectly).
OT: Mel Tucker under investigation for sexual harassment
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I actually think your confusing rape and sexual harassment in terms of the meaning of consensual relations. Clearly this isn’t rape as it was all by phone. PWhen you move into the sexual harassment space, I’m not sure how much matters if they had a consentual relationship prior to the allegations? One of the articles indicated he badgered her with 4 calls in one day after she had clearly asked him to back off. Even if they were romantically involved before (via phone relationship) if what they have recorded indicates that she told him to leave her alone and he didn’t respect her wishes on that day - based on the many harrassment videos I’ve sat through for work, I believe that alone could meet the legal definition of harassment. Technically he is her boss (even if indirectly).
No, is not her boss technically or otherwise. But that doesn’t even matter.
You have a lot of ‘what ifs’ in your analysis. Sure, if evidence shows the behavior was unwelcome and not consensual then I’d side with her. But ‘what if’ the evidence shows the opposite ?
That’s what I’m saying. We don’t have enough info to judge.
no one should have to highlight this, it brings you to his level. his post was moronic and had zero to do with issue at hand
you nicely '***** slapped' him here, kudos
This is one of the main reasons I concluded long ago that people are garbage. How do you spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to go to some of the most beautiful places on earth, then just trash it with garbage, dog ****, used toilet paper, etc etc. If you think so little of the place, why'd ya go there to begin with?? You wouldn't do that in your own yard or home.
Sadly, some of this extends right to the forefront of sport and industry. If you can't figure out a way to pull trash off Everest and not turn it into a giant dumpster/toilet, maybe it's time to drastically cut the number of vanity trips you take or sponsor there.
Yes and his second year at MSU was good so they gave him the ridiculous extension. Now, I didn't think this would happen, but I also didn't think the extension would age well with him.
He owes RB Kenneth Walker who fell into his lap as a portal transfer that 2nd year the bulk of that ridiculous contract. $9.5M a year = lol
Don't you need the full story before you call it harassment?
Yes.. if it was clearly unwanted phone call with the stuff he ADMITTED he did.. that is harassment. But don't you have to choose to believe that this is the whole story before you come to that conclusion?
Don't you have any questions as to why it was not a one-time phone call of 2 minutes or less followed immediately by cutting off all communication and lodging immediate complaints.. from someone who advises women to do just that in countless speaking engagements....
For me.. something just does not add up here.
Doesn't any of the facts we know.. deleted texts.. people saying they were flirty in public.. multiple phone calls.. the length of the phone call in focus... doesn't any of that raise doubts in your mind?
Yeah.. I understand that this is her business.. talking to colleges and athletes about rape culture and this at least started as a business engagement.. one an employee of MSU and another a consulting contractor (I imagine that's what she was)... and, clearly, there was a point where Tucker crossed a line.. he is way way way over the line of any kind of decency in that regard. But given all the odd facts involved.. I have to wonder if he was walked over that line both because he chose to go there and that she made it seem like it was okay...
I am not suggesting she asked for it... or that what he did is acceptable.. just saying that we do not have the whole story and to properly judge just how awful this was regarding the complainant we need to know more.
As for the university and his wife and kids... none of that matters, IMHO. It is his job to not allow stuff like this to happen.. entrapped, encouraged, whatever.. it was wrong any way you look at it from those perspectives. But, as the MoveOn.org people used to claim.. It's just sex.. right? Why be so judgemental? Me? I am judgemental about such things and think more people should be. Higher standards in all things might be a good way back to a more moral and better society.
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Right. Allegations and facts are not the same thing. Again, the Duke lacrosse allegations were lies.
Maybe evidence will show the tenor of the phone conversations were unwelcome. Maybe the evidence won’t show that.
I don’t know what the mindset was for either of them during this event nor do I really understand either of their motivations but I will say that for him to do what he did as a married man with a family and being a HC, technically a role model, in charge of that many young people what he did was flat out stupid and whatever happens to him is his own damned fault.
It's really on him to prove that ...not just a history of flirtation but actual consent/participation in whatever phone sex he was doing on the specific call.
If one out of two parties is saying no consent, by definition, there's no consent. So, since he already straight admitted to it, he needs to prove she's lying about not being a willing participant ....at least if he has the slightest hope of walking away with even a bite of that insane contract. Because he's already 1000 percent demolished any kind of "don't embarrass the university" stipulation beyond recovery, consent or no consent.
And WTF with the moveon.org nonsense? Talk about old coot tourettes.
(short version: I think my questions are all answered in that Detroit FP article... yeah, Tucker harrassed her.. or it looks like that with the added info in that story)
Explain the business partners thing.. she made 2 visits to MSU with a thrid planned but cancelled for whatever reason.. the phone call in question happening first. How does that require even 2 calls a month? Who initiated the calls?
Tracy's phone bills show that Tucker and Tracy spoke on the phone at least 27 times – an average of once every two weeks for a half hour. Many of the phone calls happened at night because of their work schedules, both said. They spoke most often in the fall of 2021, when Tucker was leading MSU to an 11-2 record.
Wait.. if it was on her phone bill did she call him? I saw a photo of them on the field advertising she'd be there for the spring game.. so maybe there was a photo op planned. That could take some organizing.. but why her to the head coach? Hmmm... he did have sexual interest in her.. even if she could have organized with an underling he would have made it go through him... hmmm. Still.. 27 calls for what ended up as 2 appearances?Ahhh..
After the spring game in which Tracy attended, phone records show Tucker called her four times and allegedly asked her to meet him alone, without her assistant, to which she said no.
Ahh.. 4 calls from Tucker to her, IMO, to try to "get some" after he PAID HER with that spring game appearance.. probably with a fee/expenses involved or at least publicity.
And the 36-minute call was April 28, 2022? That's 12 days after the Spring game and those 4 calls mentioned above.
Hmmm.... yeah.. have to say.. while "called her four times and allegedly asked her to meet him alone, without her assistant" may just be how she characterized those calls... come on.. 4 calls.. all one-way from Tucker to her... that's just too thirsty and the timing of the call that caused the complaint.. makes sense. Maybe it was at the end of 30 minutes of leading that he reveled what he was doing in that call... yuck.
Okay.. I am now convinced of his probable guilt of sexual harassment... at least that's the way it looks to me with that Detroit Free Pres Story linked above..
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On another note, dare I say a football note, does the removal of Tucker and the arrival of Dantonio, who I believe is a very good coach, make MSU a better team. Do they rally around the “us against the world” theme ( unlike NW, MSU actually has the talent to make that work). Or do we think the scandal brings them down?
Us against the world is a major possibility and Dantonio brought back will
have the Spartans ready to play without Tucker being a distraction.
It's out with the new problem , bring back the old winner
I don’t think these players will react much differently regardless of the accusations against the former HC. They are for the most part grown male individuals who quite assuredly have seen and heard numerous titillating stories from their peers . Especially with sexting / texting all around them since childhood. It’s no secret in today’s social media world.
Nice to have that in your back pocket.
Not sure about any rally, but I would rather be playing MSU with Tucker coaching.
Regardless of facts, that statement is a guy who knows he’ll never coach college football again and will go scorched earth to try to get as big a settlement from MSU as possible.
Things are setting up nice for the football team. Playing programs in turmoil is a huge advantage.
Tucker simply doesn’t get it. He doesn’t understand that even his own version of their relationship is unacceptable.
Hopefully they'll try to pet a buffalo. Better yet a grizzly or a wolf.
yes
Dantonio coached the Bearcats in 2006 when he had his DBs play man so he could load up against Rice in the box. Then he had his DBs repeatedly tackle our WRs rather than risk them catching a long one.
I swear that is about teh cheapest coaching move.. other than Woody Hayes punching a guy.. I have even seen. The refs should have begun tacking on 15-yard unsportsmanlike penalities on each subsequent PI after that tactic became obvious.
I really hope we spank a Dantonio-coached Sparty this year.
But wait.. how can they bring back Dantonio? Didn't he exit before NCAA violations could force him to resign? Oh, I get it.. NIL makes everything he was doing legal now. Sooo.. why not?!
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At best.. and that is an ugly "best".. he did not harass the woman (but that version of "innocence" is highly unlikely after seeing that Detriot Free Press story). But the main point re: Michigan State still applies. A consensual extra-marital affair with a consultant to Michigan State? One that could result (and has resulted) in legal exposure to Michigan State?
Are you kidding me?
They couldn’t do that by rule, but I agree it was a cheap tactic albeit within the rules.
Now the word soup:
1. "The proceedings initiated by Ms. Tracy are devoid of any semblance of fairness for any matter of this importance." Huh? What are you trying to say?
2. "the University's 'hearing' scheduled for October 5-6 is so flawed that there is no other opportunity for the truth to come out." Huh? How is the hearing flawed if it has not happened yet? No other opportunity? You can file a lawsuit you idiot.
3. A "personal relationship" and sharing "deeply personal and private information with each other" is quite different than a sexual relationship or mutual sexual attraction, you horn dog. Lots of people share deeply personal information with personal friends but are not looking to shag them. Requesting and receiving gifts is not an invitation to hear you are whacking off while talking on the phone, you deranged lunatic.
4. Well here's the smoking gun. When a woman provides her shoe size, she's DTF. No Mel, not that DTF, she's down to footwear.
5. What you call a provocative picture may have been considered innocent by Ms. Tracy. Well, you said she made a suggestion about her saying what she may look like without clothes, not really clear what that means, but you are rambling on here. That's not an invitation to whip it out and start whacking it.
6. Nasser taint? Race or gender? What?
7. The hearing is flawed again? It has not occurred. But if it is by Zoom, he has a point. It SHOULD be in person.
8. Careful with those allegations against Ms. Tracy about greed. Bordering on some actionable claims against you by Ms. Tracy.
9. Undisputed facts? Mel, there seems to a lot in dispute, and you actually corroborate a lot of Ms. Tracey's side of things.
10. If your attorney permitted you to release the statement, fire that attorney immediately. Maybe Johnny Lawrence is your attorney?
1. "The proceedings initiated by Ms. Tracy are devoid of any semblance of fairness for any matter of this importance." Huh? What are you trying to say?
2. "the University's 'hearing' scheduled for October 5-6 is so flawed that there is no other opportunity for the truth to come out." Huh? How is the hearing flawed if it has not happened yet? No other opportunity? You can file a lawsuit you idiot.
3. A "personal relationship" and sharing "deeply personal and private information with each other" is quite different than a sexual relationship or mutual sexual attraction, you horn dog. Lots of people share deeply personal information with personal friends but are not looking to shag them. Requesting and receiving gifts is not an invitation to hear you are whacking off while talking on the phone, you deranged lunatic.
4. Well here's the smoking gun. When a woman provides her shoe size, she's DTF. No Mel, not that DTF, she's down to footwear.
5. What you call a provocative picture may have been considered innocent by Ms. Tracy. Well, you said she made a suggestion about her saying what she may look like without clothes, not really clear what that means, but you are rambling on here. That's not an invitation to whip it out and start whacking it.
6. Nasser taint? Race or gender? What?
7. The hearing is flawed again? It has not occurred. But if it is by Zoom, he has a point. It SHOULD be in person.
8. Careful with those allegations against Ms. Tracy about greed. Bordering on some actionable claims against you by Ms. Tracy.
9. Undisputed facts? Mel, there seems to a lot in dispute, and you actually corroborate a lot of Ms. Tracey's side of things.
10. If your attorney permitted you to release the statement, fire that attorney immediately. Maybe Johnny Lawrence is your attorney?
best quote in comments section which by the way are really hammering her as well is, 'so why do you allow him to still follow you on twitter?' hahahaha
why go visit after the supposed traumatizing phone call?
it's all just one big boondogle and no one wins but the lawyers
Loved Mandel's line: "the only winner, as always, will be billable hours"
The language in his contract which he signed says it is solely the University’s decision of what is morally acceptable behavior and their opinion if it reflects poorly on the school. At the end of the day I believe they will fire him and not pay him. He will definitely file a suit against the university and at the end of the day they will offer$5-10 million to avoid a costly and dragged out litigation.
you saw the contract, and it allows the university to unilaterally judge morality and fire him for cause over what could be the most minor transgressions ?? I would be stunned if the contract specifies that. please show your work.
Tucker's contract states he can be fired for cause if he "engages in any conduct which constitutes moral turpitude or which, in the university's sole judgement, would tend to bring public disrespect, contempt or ridicule upon the university."
Consider yourself stunned.
Doubt that sticks. Too subjective. They could fire him for going 2-10 (ridicule), dating a student 1/3 his age, etc ?