I posted the same thing Sunday night, which was in the original USA Today article, which means Shelby didn't read the article nor my post on it and he probably won't read yours or he'll just downplay it.
OT: Mel Tucker under investigation for sexual harassment
- Thread starter RutgersNo1
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He's playing defense attorney for a scumbag, yet he can't find a kind word to utter about Greg.
He's playing defense attorney for a scumbag, yet he can't find a kind word to utter about Greg.
Ignore is your friend.
Yup, on ignore, but people like @RU848789 and others keep engaging him, which I don't get. It's like beating your head against a wall.
Not defending Tucker and not accepting Tracy’s version either. Need more info.
His MSU tenure is over, but I’m not convinced this is a ‘for cause’ firing. If it were that obvious, and if the contract says they can, why didn’t they fire him already? Ask yourselves that. The contract doesn’t stipulate granting a hearing.
I’ll tell you why…because they need to figure out potentially paying out the contract. Paying out the $80M balance from an idiotic contract in the first place is far more an embarrassment to the entire university than Tucker’s behavior is.
His MSU tenure is over, but I’m not convinced this is a ‘for cause’ firing. If it were that obvious, and if the contract says they can, why didn’t they fire him already? Ask yourselves that. The contract doesn’t stipulate granting a hearing.
I’ll tell you why…because they need to figure out potentially paying out the contract. Paying out the $80M balance from an idiotic contract in the first place is far more an embarrassment to the entire university than Tucker’s behavior is.
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Do you not see how discussing the adultery factor and immorality of the situation applies? (I was not the first to bring that up) Do you not see how Bill Clinton and a Whitehouse intern is analogous to Mel Tucker and the contract employee of the university? Was that case not famous enough for you? Was the moveon.org nationwide and media-wide movement not a notable enough case of slippery-slope morals.. not wanting to hold a US President up to high standards of behavior?
Every now and then I clean out my ignore list and start over. Sometimes that leads to immediate regret.
They can’t “fire him already” without the upcoming hearing. They have to follow a process for a for cause firing.
Some ask why it's taken so long but I think that's part of the reason. They're making sure they follow whatever protocols are necessary and that all the i's are dotted and t's are crossed.
I agree completely. But, if they suspend you without pay that’s a really bad sign for him. Typically if they are investigating and looking into allegations they suspend you with pay. Without pay usually means they got ya and it’s a matter of time before they fire ya.
Show your work. according to the contract terms posted above…MSU has ‘sole discretion’ on moral turpitude and embarrassment and assuredly can fire immediately under those terms. The process youre talking about relates to TitleIX allegations, but that’s not the crux of the issue with contract firing terms.
This entire thing started worth the Title IX claim. They’re following that process and have been prior to the story becoming public this weekend. Should the hearing find that he broke Title IX, then it becomes infinitely easier to fire him for cause .
Possibly the ugliest thing in all of this from MSU’s perspective is that they waited to suspend Tucker until after the story became public.
Ok, that’s a semi-reasonable take…but if true then the contract as written (‘sole discretion’) doesn’t have teeth. Also, Pat Fitzgerald was fired immediately after the hazing issues hit the press.
I think MSU realizes it doesn’t have a strong ‘for cause’ case. Crude but private behavior, consensual TBD, isn’t a ‘for cause’ reason. Had he done it in public, totally different.
They followed the Northwestern playbook. Maybe Mandel will write about it.
yes and no
agree they have to follow the process but that process does not need to be so far out. We all know he's getting canned, the only question is how much does he walk with.
the kids are losing here
agree
My take is as soon as a IX complaint filed, he should be put on administrative leave until the investigation and determination is over.
Except the adultery isn't Tucker's issue. If he banged a gal he picked up at the bar, there's no scandal. Then your "just sex" comparison would actually make the least bit of sense.
They have a professionally connected relationship even if he’s not technically her direct employee. Because of this, the bar to qualify as sexual harrassment is very low. Even if she embraced the behavior for months prior it wouldn’t matter. His 4 persistent calls despite her asking him to stop still qualify as harrassment because on the day in question she told him leave her alone (obviously there is record of them down to the transcript - he wouldn’t be admitting to any of this if not)
Did you not read anything else I said earlier? What you just argued against was a message that came after earlier messages where I basically said everything you just said. The message to which you replied was directly related to a complaint about me bringing up moveon.org.. sarcastically..
Here is how it was used.. ("none of that".. below, refers to whether he was encouraged by the woman or not.. and I even said the latest info about who called whom when basically suggests the woman is telling the truth)
"As for the university and his wife and kids... none of that matters, IMHO. It is his job to not allow stuff like this to happen.. entrapped, encouraged, whatever.. it was wrong any way you look at it from those perspectives. But, as the MoveOn.org people used to claim.. It's just sex.. right? Why be so judgemental? Me? I am judgemental about such things and think more people should be. Higher standards in all things might be a good way back to a more moral and better society."
So the message to which you just replied was in defense of me bringing up MoveOn.org at all. And to be clear, I never agreed with their use of "it's just sex".Shelby is from the future. That's how Shelby knows Schiano won't see more than 7 wins....and that will be the outlier. PSAL...you know for sure she repeatedly asked him to stop ? She sure seemed cool with the relationship for many months afterward.
Tucker put out a statement
Tracy replies
Alleged sexual harassment victim Brenda Tracy challenges Mel Tucker to take the stand in court - Footballscoop
>“Coach Tucker has been delaying and trying to stop the investigative process since the beginning,” Tracy wrote. “He can’t afford to go to a hearing that determines credibility of the participating parties.
“I believe this statement is his way of getting out of participating in the hearing.”<
https://footballscoop.com/news/alle...llenges-mel-tucker-to-take-the-stand-in-court
Tracy replies
Alleged sexual harassment victim Brenda Tracy challenges Mel Tucker to take the stand in court - Footballscoop
>“Coach Tucker has been delaying and trying to stop the investigative process since the beginning,” Tracy wrote. “He can’t afford to go to a hearing that determines credibility of the participating parties.
“I believe this statement is his way of getting out of participating in the hearing.”<
https://footballscoop.com/news/alle...llenges-mel-tucker-to-take-the-stand-in-court
The DFP story shows he brought Tracy back for the Spring game.. then calls her four time trying to get her to meet him alone without her assistant that weekend. Which she declines. Then less than 2 weeks later comes to the specific phone call in question.
Yes, that the call lasted 36 minutes is odd.. but what if the disgusting part happened in the last 2 minutes and resulted in a hang-up?
If this story has said she called him every time, not the other way around... and teh calls had nothing to do with organizing photo ops or visits or speeches.. that would be one thing. But, come on, 4 calls in one weekend from a head football coach when he should be busy with family and recruiting and the business of running a Big Ten football operation?
He brought her to town for a ridiculous reason.. because we all need a sexual violence speaker to be the focal point of a Spring football game.. he knew she'd be in a hotel and he tried to get her to agree to meet him privately.. 4 times!
C'mon. That's stalking. He might call it salesmanship.. not taking no for an answer.. persistence! But the goal was sex.. obviously.. and its creepy as hell. It is harassment.
I was willing to entertain the idea of him being coerced... but all it likely was was her being nice to book speaker engagements. It's her business. And his is supposed to be football.
Oh no. I don’t know that at all. In fact, I’m not even dismissing the possibility of a set up. But it doesn’t matter what happened for months before given what they near certainly have on tape (it’s pretty obvious those 4 begging calls and the masterbation stuff was all recorded because there is zero chance he would admitting to any of it if not).
Hence the 1965 comment - in the modern day workforce - if a senior executive had a romantic relationship with a company employee and then she broke it off - it’s still sexual harrassment if that executive then proceeds to persistently call her 4 times, *********** on the phone and begs her to stay on the line - that would meet the bar for sexual harrassment. If she recorded all of it - that executive would be in big trouble. This is the same thing.
That’s the part your not getting. The timeline doesn’t much matter either. The only thing we know for sure is that on one particular day she didn’t want to hear from him and he proceeded to call her persistently and she obviously recorded him saying inappropriate things / masterbating. That alone meets the criteria for text book work force harrassment (whether or not) she participated other consensual phone calls before or after that day.
First, learn how to spell. Second, it does matter to her state of mind if the damaging phone call didn’t change anything about her friendship with him for many more months afterward. That begs the question, did it truly upset her and was it unwelcome? So, what was the timeline ?
I think he hasn’t been fired for one simple reason. Add/drop and transfers. If he’s fired before schools close their add/drop window kids will transfer and get to play immediately. If they wait until after that most kids will just finish the year or at least the fall at MSU and new cosch has a shot to keep them.
No Shelby - your wrong. You obviously don’t work in a corporate environment, because if you had to sit through the annual harrassment presentation each year (it’s pretty much the same everywhere) you would have a better understanding of how it works. If they have him on tape doing the things they said despite her asking him to piss off, that meets the legal bar for harrassment in the work force. He’s done. There won’t be a deep dive into her PTSD stuff or any of that. She can say what she wants and whether it’s true doesn’t matter. He holds a leadership role for an organization that employs her. That’s enough for this to fall under the work force umbrella. He’s toast even if she “forgave” him later and rekindled things. There’s recorded proof that he harassed her.
And this is why we must continue to go through yearly anti-harassment training in corporate America...because plenty of people are not paying attention in class.
We will see if I’m wrong…. based on whether they pay him or not. And I also don’t agree with waiting until after the transfer window closes because it’s already obvious he ain’t coming back.
The window doesn’t open until he’s fired. Whether or not he’s coming back has nothing to do with the rules
You misunderstand again. We’re saying it doesn’t matter with respect to employment law. That his recorded behavior meets the definition of sexual harrassment in terms of “fire for cause”. It doesn’t take that much to meet that standard so this will certainly qualify.
Grounds to fire without unemployment benefits is different from committing an illegal act of sexual harrassment. That’s where your consensual stuff, severity of offense, and intent come into play. It’s not as black and white and a much harder standard to meet. Tucker is likely looking to avoid legal charges against him personally. His job is a done deal though and he’s not collecting the rest of his contract. The only way it settles is if he’s willing to accept a very small percentage off the bat and Sparty just wants to move on quickly.
Yeah the lawsuit by a former staffer was frivolous. Guys name was Curtis Blackwell. I’ll try to make this short…
Curtis is from Detroit and founded a football camp called sound mind sound body. Dantonio hired him as a recruiting coordinator. In 2016 several MSU players were accused of sexual assault. A couple of them were from Detroit and knew Blackwell their entire lives. The players I assume in a panic called Blackwell.
This is where it gets murky. I’ll fast forward…MSU hires outside law firm to review their conduct over handling this. Everyone was in the clear…except Curtis Blackwell. The law firm concluded he failed in his mandatory reporting duties. He gets placed on leave and subsequently terminated.
He then lawyers up and claims he was scapegoated by MSU and that Dantonio was the culprit. The problem was he was arguing against the law firms conclusion, not the university. Judge ends up dismissing his lawsuit for wrongful termination and whatever lawsuit he had against Dantonio.
During all of this, Dantonio was advised to not make public comments while litigation was ongoing.
Hope this helps give context.