OT: Possible NCAA Investigation into Michigan Scouting Opponents.
- Thread starter tico brown
- Start date
Paywall but excerpt from the article:
Industry sources were not certain what potential penalties are in play for Michigan because there is no precedent for an NCAA investigation like this into an alleged illegal scouting scheme. Though the NCAA has in recent years moved away from penalties that hurt athletes who were not involved in rule-breaking, the organization still can issue postseason bans for egregious violations or repeat offenders. Michigan was already under NCAA investigation for a case involving alleged recruiting violations during the COVID-19 era dead period, and regardless of what Harbaugh did or didn’t know about Stalions’ behavior, he can be held accountable for it under the NCAA’s head coach responsibility rules. Essentially, head coaches can now be penalized whether they had knowledge of a staffer’s violation or not.
It is not yet clear how the second NCAA case will impact the first, or if they will combine into one case. Either way, the process is expected to move slowly, as the NCAA’s infractions processes tend to do.
I’m sorry but I just can’t buy this. The Michigan State coaching staff believed this ameteur guy could figure out opponent signals from watching TV clips?
We wouldn't be 7-1. They would just erase that game from record and we would be 6-1.
I understand what you are saying. I don’t think it’s a viable excuse. I come from a finance/trading background and saw many newbies attempting to cut corners yearly. And everyone on the trading floors knew the person that was going to and did cut corners. It was always very obvious and predictable. No way that people on those desks specifically management didn’t know. They chose to look the other way to their benefit. I believe that is the same thing that happened here.
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Can't be bothered at this point. Its out there if you want to see it. Further, Schiano said in his post game against Indiana that the Michigan Halftielme comments were about the officiating. Time to put your theory to rest now.
What penalty JH receives will ultimately depend on his level of knowledge/involvement. But even if this proves to be minimal on his part, how could the NCAA allow MIchigan to participate in any post season games when the team had the benefit of cheating for their entire season? Think about it: if they recorded every signal from every play from every game, and literally knew every offensive and defensive play ahead of time, what does that translate to in points for and allowed?
If they penalize Michigan- the verbiage has made it clear the JH takes as much responsibility.
Lol
Yea, schiano did say that those comments were related to the officiating … if you believe that , then I got a bridge to sell you
And as far as I know , rutgers did not release a statement on this .
There was the part that WAS about officiating and that was the first part where it is the normal speak of coach talk. The "there are things" and we have to figure out how to address them...or something similar- I dont have his specific quote- but I am sort of on Plums side on this one. Coach has been around too long to actually say it but t almost got the better of him.
30 years from now- different memory from GS
There's your paper trail/smoking gun. Harbaugh will be held responsible as the head coach...the inevitable suspension will push him into the NFL for next season. The only question is where...Chargers? Washington? Vegas? Michigan won't get anything more than a postseason ban.
Paywall but for comments in the tweets
From the article:
Multiple Big Ten sources told The Athletic that the Michigan allegations have fueled another push within the conference to enact these changes next season. The Big Ten also proposed the use of tablets on the sideline this summer, but that was not approved by the committee either.
If communication technology is used in bowl games and the feedback is positive, it could be proposed and approved on a much larger scale next year. Whether that’s conference-by-conference or division-by-division would be decided at that time.
From the article:
Multiple Big Ten sources told The Athletic that the Michigan allegations have fueled another push within the conference to enact these changes next season. The Big Ten also proposed the use of tablets on the sideline this summer, but that was not approved by the committee either.
If communication technology is used in bowl games and the feedback is positive, it could be proposed and approved on a much larger scale next year. Whether that’s conference-by-conference or division-by-division would be decided at that time.
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The difference is that there is less benefit in looking the other way with NCAA matters, because you get punished for not knowing about it or if you did.
I can believe that with Harbaugh more than most coaches.
Force Michigan to hire Mel Tucker as their head coach.
Even a worse penalty, make Michigan hire Chris Ash as head coach.
Can the B10 force them to have RutgersAl make them songs that get played all throughout their home games?
I am thinking you may have jealousy issues
Give Al some Roofies, then hypnotize him and make him forever post on Michigan's fan forums???
i do. i envy those who are unafraid of making themselves the butt of all jokes.
I think they would prefer the death penalty SMU got.
Plausible deniability doesn’t really hold up. If they are under your purview you have oversight responsibilities. You think NCAA rules and punishments are any different than the SEC or Finra? Everyone in the chain of command gets dinged.
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The latest ESPN article gives a good clue. The 'ringleader' made 55k a year. He's not buying plane tickets and game tickets for him/a network of people at that salary. At some point somebody is reimbursing him. Who knows maybe they were dumb enough that a formal system was in place for reimbursement.
Actually the NCAA has teams vacate wins. So it would have no impact on the opponent's record. Rutgers would still be 6-2. Michigan's record would be 0-0.
From the article:
ESPN surveyed coaches in the aftermath of the news out of Michigan to see what they thought. Some were aghast at what Michigan is accused of doing. Others shrugged their shoulders. A Big Ten coach said, "If they were sending people to live-scout and film, that's bulls---, then they should catch hell."
But another coach with Big Ten and SEC experience asked what the big deal was in practical terms. Between the TV broadcast, coaches' tape and what fans film with their phones and post online, the coach said there's more than enough footage that's accessible without ever leaving the office. "Anything that happens in the public eye hasn't gone too far," the coach said. "To be honest, I can watch TV copy [of] two to three games and get everything I need."
Sign stealing, whether legal or illegal "is incredibly rampant in this business," a longtime Power 5 assistant said. Ohio State defensive coordinator Jim Knowles told ESPN in December that he estimates 75% of teams do it in some form. NCAA rules don't directly ban stealing signals, but they prohibit using electronic equipment to record signals and ban off-campus scouting of future opponents.
The teams that have a reputation for pushing the boundaries are well known, as are the individual coaches and staff members who are considered gurus.
Brent Venables, then Clemson's defensive coordinator, has long been the focal point of sign-stealing speculation, according to multiple sources, though no one has publicly accused him of anything illegal. After LSU's first three offensive drives ended with three punts and one first down, sources say a frustrated coach Ed Orgeron told offensive coordinator Steve Ensminger, "Change it up." Upon changing signals, LSU scored touchdowns on five of its next six drives.
Grant, the Auburn ball boy, said it usually took him about a quarter to figure out who was the dummy signaler and who was live. From there, it was as simple as matching signals to plays. He recalled a game against USC when he picked up on their naked boot call. "He'd kick his heel and tap his ankle," Grant said, comparing it to an exaggerated cowboy gesture, spurs and all.
The only problem? The staff member he relayed the signal to either forgot or ignored him, because USC ran a naked boot and Matt Leinart hit the receiver for a big gain.
So, cracking the code doesn't always yield results. Coaches need to act on the information and players have to execute. Even then, it's not guaranteed success.
ESPN surveyed coaches in the aftermath of the news out of Michigan to see what they thought. Some were aghast at what Michigan is accused of doing. Others shrugged their shoulders. A Big Ten coach said, "If they were sending people to live-scout and film, that's bulls---, then they should catch hell."
But another coach with Big Ten and SEC experience asked what the big deal was in practical terms. Between the TV broadcast, coaches' tape and what fans film with their phones and post online, the coach said there's more than enough footage that's accessible without ever leaving the office. "Anything that happens in the public eye hasn't gone too far," the coach said. "To be honest, I can watch TV copy [of] two to three games and get everything I need."
Sign stealing, whether legal or illegal "is incredibly rampant in this business," a longtime Power 5 assistant said. Ohio State defensive coordinator Jim Knowles told ESPN in December that he estimates 75% of teams do it in some form. NCAA rules don't directly ban stealing signals, but they prohibit using electronic equipment to record signals and ban off-campus scouting of future opponents.
The teams that have a reputation for pushing the boundaries are well known, as are the individual coaches and staff members who are considered gurus.
Brent Venables, then Clemson's defensive coordinator, has long been the focal point of sign-stealing speculation, according to multiple sources, though no one has publicly accused him of anything illegal. After LSU's first three offensive drives ended with three punts and one first down, sources say a frustrated coach Ed Orgeron told offensive coordinator Steve Ensminger, "Change it up." Upon changing signals, LSU scored touchdowns on five of its next six drives.
Grant, the Auburn ball boy, said it usually took him about a quarter to figure out who was the dummy signaler and who was live. From there, it was as simple as matching signals to plays. He recalled a game against USC when he picked up on their naked boot call. "He'd kick his heel and tap his ankle," Grant said, comparing it to an exaggerated cowboy gesture, spurs and all.
The only problem? The staff member he relayed the signal to either forgot or ignored him, because USC ran a naked boot and Matt Leinart hit the receiver for a big gain.
So, cracking the code doesn't always yield results. Coaches need to act on the information and players have to execute. Even then, it's not guaranteed success.
Yep. My guess is it is likely Harbaugh is in the NFL next year and leaves the wreckage behind.
Yeah, schiano walked it back by saying he was talking about the officials . How often does schiano say “yeah I was ripping the officials at the halftime interview”?
He just doesn’t want the distraction of ratting Michigan out on BTN and that is understandable. But it’s pretty clear he was talking about the sign stealing
except that TV coverage as well as fans video from their phones are not aimed specifically at those sending in the signs on every single play and what play follows.
It's not really that difficult to implement a system that rotates the live signal among the fake signals on every play, making it extremely difficult to know what play has been called. I would've thought every team already does this.
Hell, we were doing that in little league in grade school. Pretty sure they can do it in CFB.
Hell, we were doing that in little league in grade school. Pretty sure they can do it in CFB.
Playing and coaching little league , we had a “hot sign” . So everything before the hot sign was bs and the sign immediate after the hot sign was the play … then everything after that was BS. You can decode it by figuring out the hot sign and then the gesture after that. Then you change the hot sign
So this was very elementary since it was little league …. Signs can be stolen , changed and stolen again!
I always figured that during college football games , one guy is standing there as a decoy and signaling in fake signals that the QB isn’t even loooking at. You can change that guy every series.
I would have a rotation such that it's not helpful to match the signal on the prior to play to the play that was run. So it would change on every play.
But, ultimately, they should just allow the OC and QB to communicate like they do in the pros. That could make it extremely hard, near impossible, to steal the signals.
How could JH have no knowledge why his offense and defense were doing audibles according to signals from the opponents?
He is the head coach.. he is watching what his offense is set up to run and what the defense is set up to run. Most coaches wear headsets and should HEAR what the calls from upstairs are.
Are you telling me that he might hear an odd shift to a run defense in a passing situation and not ask questions?
C'mon, now.
I don’t see the NCAA working quickly enough to vacate Michigan wins before the end of the playoffs, let alone before bowl selection time.
