Yuup. My house is two story and 3000 (ish) SF. USAA paid me $27k for a new roof in 2022.
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OTState Farm Insurance strikes again
- Thread starter T-TownDawgg
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I didn't pay anything. He sent the quote to the agent. The adjuster came out and looked at it. Farm Bureau sent me a check for 20K I endorsed it over to him once the job was completed. Then Farm Bureau game me 700.00 check as a refund of premium. New roof lower premium,
It's not the square foot of the house it's the tall roof that I have with a lot of footage and the type of roof as well. Architectual Singles are not cheap.
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I don't know where you live but there is a is a lot of competition here in Rankin County Miss. So, they do what they have to do to get the business. Farm Bureau agreed with the roofer. Miss Farm Bureau is one of the best Mutual Fire companies in the state and they take care of their Farm Bureau Members.
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You would think so but apparently not. It’s pretty common for roofers to eat the deductible or upgrade you from regular shingles to architectural ones. As long as the insurance company cost aligns with the adjusters cost they’re ok with it.
You are absolutely correct. They sent their adjuster out to look at the roof after the roofer quoted and he agreed with the roofer about the cost. The deductible was between me and the roofer not the roofer and Farm Bureau. He wanted my business. Business cut deals all the time in all walks of life to get business. Heck he might have taken a tax deduction off it.
I don’t care how he does it. It is 100 percent fraud for the roofer to eat the deductible. And of course it happens all the time, under the table. But insurance gives you ACV money up front during a roof replacement. When you get your roof finished, you and/or your contractor has to submit a cert of completion along with a final invoice (what you were charged for the roof). Then they’ll release the depreciation and whatever supplements the contractor added, if they got approved.
Insurance is expecting you to pay your deductible. If you submit a final invoice to insurance that is less than what the estimate is then insurance will reduce the amount being sent in the depreciation to match. So you have contractors send in an invoice that matches the original estimate and tell the homeowner on the backend you only have to pay me “X” amount so you can keep the rest.
Actually the deductible is between you and farm bureau. The contractor has no say in it at all, legally speaking.
I can choose my deductible with the insurance company but what I pay out of my pocket which is the deductible I can negotiate with the roofer. Farm bureau said I owed 2000K of the 22K. I negotiated that 2000 down to 0 with the roofer.
Farm Bureau is one of the better ones in AL as well….allegedly. Them and Alfa are good for roofs.
I don’t think the cost number you threw out there was out of line, tall roof or not.
Shape of roof and design complexity matters as well.
Alabama Life Farmers Association is Part of the Farm Bureau Federation in Alabama. Shelter is a smaller company out of Missouri, but they are pretty good as well.
No you cannot negotiate it. That 22k amount is the Replacement cost to complete your roof that was agreed upon by the contractor and farm bureau. Your deductible is included in that 22k.
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The one question I would have if my contractor offered to eat the deductible is how many corners is he going to cut to make that up. When I had my roof replaced, I paid the full deductible.
No ****! You are arguing words. It is simple and you are making hard. I chose my deductible when I bought my policy. The claim was for 22K. I owed 2K and Farm Bureau owed 20K. Farm Bureau paid their part, and I negotiated with the roofer what I paid out of the 2K remaining and I negotiated that down to zero.
Where they save money is the 15 Mexicans, he hires to put the roof on. I am really good friends with my agent, and I used the roofer he trusted and recommended to me. Trust me after the hailstorm I had 20 different companies come by wanting to put a roof on my house. I stayed away from them. I knew my roof was old and had hailstorm but it was the fact my premium went up because of it is why I acted.
I asked the roofer about the people putting the roof on and he told me there are about five different groups of Mexicans that put the roofs on. Each group are an independent contractor that the roofing companies hire. I am not saying all companies do it, but he said most use the five different groups. I asked him what if one falls off my roof and gets hurt. He said he is bonded or whatever that means he would be responsible. They really did a good job. I had some face boards that got dry rotted because the roof was old, but I hired a guy to replace those. He was a US Citizen.
I think you’re the one who doesn’t understand it. You, the homeowner, can not negotiate the deductible amount with the roofer. He is required to charge you that amount. It is required, by law, for you to pay it. If he keeps records of it or is ever investigated then he’ll be the one in trouble. If insurance somehow finds out that you only paid the roofer the checks you received from farm bureau, and didn’t pay your 2k then they will revise their estimate to 20k and change the amount given to you to 18k. Thus making you reimburse them 2k
You picked the wrong person to debate this with btw. My team gets brought in on cases like this all the time. It’s one of the main reasons why premiums are going up. Inflated costs by shady contractors
Yeah, you 17d up not getting a quote, I got a check from my insurance and made 4k on my roof after Hurricane Michael. I used that money to upgrade additional items on my house.
My insurance company was sending out an adjuster and the check was not going to be mailed to me until job was completed. I guess I could have negotiated more with him. It didn't cost me anything and I got a refund on my premium because it went down. I was happy.
I don't care what you or you team do. Since you know so much I will through some terms at you. I have had my P&C license for 30 years. I have had my Life Accident and Health license for 30 years. All in Miss. I have Life Accident and Health in 11 other states. I used to have series 6 and 63, I let them go when they changed the law keeping you from parking them. I have a CLU, FSCP and a LUTCF designation. All from the American College. The CLU course is harder than any class I took at State. I get the required CE credits every two year to renewal my license. I don't sell anymore and have not for 23 years, but I have to keep my license for job. The only time insurance companies give a **** is when you win a personal injury case from an auto accident and the Medical Insurance company want their money back. Homeowner claims they are going to pay what they owe and done with it. What I did is really no different than me negotiating my out-of-pocket expense with the hospital after a stay. Yes, I have done that. Just make an offer. United Health didn't care either. What I owe is what I owe and that's between me and the roofer.
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Congrats on your longevity in insurance. Means zilch. I too have 20 years of p&c, as well as construction law. I’m always amazed at how many agents don’t understand the nuts and bolts of insurance and the law. And especially they don’t know about the claims process. You’re there to sell policies and that’s it.
And if you don’t think insurance companies care about saving 2k per claim then you’ve lost your damn mind.
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Well apparently, not in my case. and I'm not an agent anymore. This was between me and the roofer. I seriously doubt the roofer adjusted the estimate after the fact. Too many documents were signed. Anyways you and your team should be really busy because it is happening a lot.
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It's not that they are intellectually challenged, it's that we allow lobbying. I mean some serious donations are being given to each and every one of them from someone to get something they want passed. Lobbying makes them rich and keeps them from doing what is right.
I do wonder how much of that 48% that Insurance companies keep from our premiums end up in a gov't officials pocket or those around them.
I think everything you are saying is kind of proving his point. He didn’t adjust the estimate after the fact because he didn’t have to….he already had enough fluff margin in there to be able to drop $2k off the bottom line, and still have it be well worth the effort.
20% overhead and profit is pretty standard for construction contracts. That’s what you need for solvency…..and typically will be 10% OH and 10% profit give or take 1-2% for each. If he had that in his quote on a $22k job, and everything was accurate, he’d end up only making like $200 profit on the job if he knocked $2000 off. Nobody’s taking on the risk of a job like that for $200….its nonsensical.
Facts are that contractors have different estimates they will provide, depending on if insurance is covering the damage or not. They like insurance claims because they really don’t have to compete on price with other roofers. Those estimates will be higher, and profit is much bigger. That gives them wiggle room to work down. That’s why they knock on doors like crazy after a hail storm, but really don’t give enough of a crap to do that otherwise. And yes, that is something that affects premiums for everyone.
Well, I'll make a deal with my insurance company. I'll pay my deductible in full if they don't rob me by depreciating my assets unjustly. Until then, if I have a buddy who owns a roofing company and can work with him to minimize the impact of the deductible, I'm doing that, and I'll sleep well at night. The last thing I'm worried about is an insurance company being defrauded. They do a helluva lot more defrauding than getting defrauded.
What you are describing in the personal injury context is called subrogation, and it happens across all insurance lines including P&C if the carrier can find another party responsible for an intervening cause. Of course, that doesn't happen very much because the cause is weather.
But I think it's a good example of @msugolf saying that agents don't really get trained on the products they're selling. This is not meant as an offense to you, because you can't train yourself on things you don't know exist. Insurance companies notoriously divide the sales from claims so that the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing.
As of at least 2025, State Farm doesn't even automatically provide a copy of the underlying homeowners' policy when you initiate coverage with them. The agents can "request" it, but that just means they don't have access to the product that they are selling.
I can tell you from hundreds of depositions that agents rarely know much about the policies they are selling, especially when there are multiple riders.
What other industry gets away with that?
The odd thing is I’m definitely not on the insurance’s team. I’ve seen far worse from their side. I say stick it to them when you can because they are definitely not looking out for your best interest.
My house is about the same size. New roof, with metal drip edge and ice/water around the perimeter, was something over $17,000. The top of the line architectural shingles are advertised to be treated against the black streaks you get on the north side. So far, that works after almost 2 years. The roofer used Mexican roofers who worked from sunup to sundown, fearless when working on my 12/12 and 18/12 roof. I don't know if they were legal or not, but only one spoke any English at all. The company was recommended by my State Farm agent.
When I pay cash to my mechanic, it's between me and him, because if he told the government that he was not reporting the income and he was not charging me sales tax (that he's not paying) in order to incentivize cash payments, he'd get in trouble.
It's basically the same thing with you and the roofer. You are keeping the insurance company out of it because if you let them in on it, they'd obviously object just like the government would object to not getting income or sales tax. I assume you technically have an obligation to report if the cost changes so that you bear the full cost of your deductible. Whether it's fraud or not probably depends on when you and the roofer talked about it. But like the small business owner not reporting cash income, probalby not a ton of risk to you.
But still, it's only between you in the roofer in the same way most fraud doesn't give the defrauded all the details.
Some frivolous claims are dismissed, many frivolous claims are not. And attorneys fees are rarely awarded even in frivolous claims. Even when lawyers bring claims that don't (and can't) state a claim or can't get past a summary judgment stage, attorneys fees are rarely assessed if it's not contractual.
There are good arguments in favor of the American Rule. Not having it encourages people to fully litigate relatively small value claims. And also discourages people from bringing claims with merit if they can't risk losing and paying attorneys fees.
We could improve things a lot just by having a little bit of skin in the game. But the reality is defense lawyers and judges don't want cases to dry up either.
'Frivolous'
Define it. Like objectively define it so cases can be clearly categorized as legitimate or frivolous.
...you can't, because personal opinion plays a role in a lot of instances.
I am not trying to be obtusely difficult, I am trying to help show how the argument for reform continually falls apart when categorization is required.
That's an argument against the legal system in general, not against improving the legal system. What's the difference between gross negligence and negligence? When is conduct outrageous? You can put descriptions on them but it doesn't make them an objective standard, same as frivolous. And just like the legal system is improved by having some things classified as gross negligence as opposed to ordinary negligence, you could improve the efficiency of the legal system by dismissing more frivolous cases or by adding some costs to frivolous cases that go to verdict.
Double check your limits of liability and exclusions. There's a reason it's half as much.
I'm good, Geovera is an insurance of last resort. I got cancelled after Hurricane Michael and had to get something for my mortgage. I kept them for 1 year then they doubled thier rate on me.
That is certainly not my experience. I didn't lose much at any of these stages because I have been fortunate enough to have plenty of clients over my career. But, courts in my jurisdictions do a very good job of dismissing claims that aren't proven. "Frivolous" is not a word used in the actual legal profession by defense or plaintiffs' bars, because it was originally ginned up by chambers of commerce to create bad PR for lawyers.
Do you practice? I'd be interested in where if so. I'm sure that some jurisdictions have judges that are more lax about dismissing lawsuits. I can assure you that is not the case in the 5th Circuit.