Playing off Lent thread, what religion are you?

[POTUS]

This is absolutely false. Catholics believe the bible is the infallible word of god and everything in it is true. You can’t show me a Catholic belief that’s not rooted in scripture unless you remove the Septuagint which was done 1500 years in to Christianity by reformers who would contradict their beliefs if it was still there. I’ve studied that debate in depth & had it with my mother who knows Hebrew, Aramaic, etc… so I’m not saying you can’t argue against it in good faith but to me it’s simple…. That’s what the vast majority of Jews followed at the time Jesus was on Earth founding his church so it makes too much logical sense to include it. Even Luther wasn’t for removing it, just segregating it as “minor” scriptures. To me it’s a bad faith argument to exclude it, act like it doesn’t exist, & demand proof from a reformed document. But then again, I believe many who make that argument don’t know that and don’t realize the nuance & depth a real debate on the subject requires.

Where in the NT is Mary’s perfection taught. That one always confused me.

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Navigating life in the Bible Belt as a non-believer is pretty much the same as being a progressive liberal. It's always fun when people find out and are shocked I'm not trying to destroy America, turn my kids trans, and start a war on Christmas. Bit of hyperbole, but no one ever treats me the same or acts the same around me when they find out.

After being immersed in it growing up and through early adulthood, it all just seemed liked people trying to attach a meaning to life and death that didn't exist and didn't need to. We are just another species living out their blip in time. We crawled out of the water, decided to go to the trees instead of back into it with some other mammals, then came down from the trees when we got smart. We are the lucky species with the most developed brains which has allowed us to think and build amazing things as well as develop complex emotions. The gift the universe gives us is that time is running out on your clock from day one, and we have developed the brain power to give that brief moment meaning. We don't need to invent a higher power to do it for us. But yeah, we live we die. Bad stuff and good stuff happens. Moving on.

Outside looking in, the one great irony I see right now is that we are the only species that has ever lived that can actually do the first thing we are told to do in the Bible, which is take care of the garden, and we are doing a pretty miserable job of it.

 

[CEO2044]

Speaking of- for the Sola Scripture folks:

Where exactly in the Bible is that?

 

[FreeDawg]

Where in the NT is Mary’s perfection taught. That one always confused me.

This is a great question because my 1 biggest hangup during and after RCIA was the ever virgin belief. It wasn’t a deal breaker for me but my argument during class with the teachers was we can agree on immaculate conception but if she was an ever virgin that means Jesus had no siblings as noted and also the marriage wasn’t consummated so it wasn’t valid. The siblings part is often explained as Jewish tradition of several families living together (cousins) and also I’ve read that Joseph was previously married. That comes from apocryphal writings later. The lay minister at my church did not have a good answer. It bothered me for years, not in a deal breaking way, but I’ll get hung up on something that can’t be logically explained to me. A priest on X answered this for me in DMs like 2 years ago. His answer that satisfied my hangup:

“Hey, thank you for asking — and no worries at all. That’s a genuinely thoughtful question, and you’re not the first to wonder about it. It's great that you're digging into it honestly.

In Jewish custom at the time of Mary and Joseph, marriage had two distinct stages: the betrothal (erusin) and the home-taking (nisuin). Betrothal was more than what we’d call engagement — it was a legal bond, and ending it required a formal divorce. But the couple didn’t yet live together. The second stage, nisuin, happened when the husband formally brought the wife into his home — that’s when they began life as husband and wife.

Now here’s the important bit: bringing a woman into one's home was the formal beginning of married life, not necessarily its consummation. Consummation was expected but not legally required for the marriage to be valid in the eyes of the law and community — especially if there was a mutual vow of continence. In fact, there are records in Jewish history (and later Christian tradition too) of so-called Josephite marriages, where spouses lived in celibate fidelity for spiritual reasons.

So Mary and Joseph were truly married — Joseph took her into his home (Matthew 1:24), which marked the nisuin. But their unique vocation involved a shared mission of guarding the mystery of Christ — and Joseph accepted that mission with full faith and obedience.

It’s not a loophole — it’s love on a whole other level.”

 

[Bagman.sixpack]

Epistles are written to explain Christian doctrine and to give guidance to the early church on how to understand and live out the Gospel in practical and daily context.

There are 21 Epistles written to churches in the new testament. 155 total chapters and over 62 thousand words. Not one single mention of Mary nor of Peter being the "head of the church" (not even in Peter's own 3 epistles). In fact, in Acts, Paul rebukes Peter for being wrong. That's not how you treat the first pope. One would surmise something catholics hold to such importance would have been important from the start.

Flame on

This is a great question because my 1 biggest hangup during and after RCIA was the ever virgin belief. It wasn’t a deal breaker for me but my argument during class with the teachers was we can agree on immaculate conception but if she was an ever virgin that means Jesus had no siblings as noted and also the marriage wasn’t consummated so it wasn’t valid. The siblings part is often explained as Jewish tradition of several families living together (cousins) and also I’ve read that Joseph was previously married. That comes from apocryphal writings later. The lay minister at my church did not have a good answer. It bothered me for years, not in a deal breaking way, but I’ll get hung up on something that can’t be logically explained to me. A priest on X answered this for me in DMs like 2 years ago. His answer that satisfied my hangup:

“Hey, thank you for asking — and no worries at all. That’s a genuinely thoughtful question, and you’re not the first to wonder about it. It's great that you're digging into it honestly.

In Jewish custom at the time of Mary and Joseph, marriage had two distinct stages: the betrothal (erusin) and the home-taking (nisuin). Betrothal was more than what we’d call engagement — it was a legal bond, and ending it required a formal divorce. But the couple didn’t yet live together. The second stage, nisuin, happened when the husband formally brought the wife into his home — that’s when they began life as husband and wife.

Now here’s the important bit: bringing a woman into one's home was the formal beginning of married life, not necessarily its consummation. Consummation was expected but not legally required for the marriage to be valid in the eyes of the law and community — especially if there was a mutual vow of continence. In fact, there are records in Jewish history (and later Christian tradition too) of so-called Josephite marriages, where spouses lived in celibate fidelity for spiritual reasons.

So Mary and Joseph were truly married — Joseph took her into his home (Matthew 1:24), which marked the nisuin. But their unique vocation involved a shared mission of guarding the mystery of Christ — and Joseph accepted that mission with full faith and obedience.

It’s not a loophole — it’s love on a whole other level.”

Love that. As we know, the Bible as we know it today was assembled and codified by the early Church Fathers. These Church Fathers taught the Way as passed on by the Apostles. There is much tradition that is important and along with the scriptures they describe the full Christian life.

 

[bulldoghair]

I'll pray for you.

Since you’re feeling prayerful- maybe redirect those prayers toward the profoundly disabled folks who can’t comprehend the gospel or “faith” at all- the same people whose eternal fate I’ve simply asked you about 5 times.

Just because your theology or whatever doesn’t have room for those people, doesn’t mean you have to get upset and go all church lady passive agressive- with the “Ill pray for you”. That passive agressive phrase is basically the universal sign of “I have no answer and I’m morally superior about it.” All you had to say was an honest “I don’t know.” Lay the stones down brother.

 

[CEO2044]

I guess my point is, if the church has no authority, what do we do with the first 1000 or 1500 years of Christians? Are they all heretics? Are their traditions invalid?

It’s hard for me to square that when you read how the early church fathers were basically all martyred in horrific ways. They weren’t martyred over any solas, just belief in Jesus. I hope this comes off as respectful and good faith discussion.

My thought is there wouldn't be a church today from which to even have all of these branches off of- Christianity wouldn't have survived if it were supposed to wait around for Bibles to be produced. They took a long time to make, they were handwritten- many people didn't read or write then. You had to write them in a language that could be understood by the people of that land. They were very expensive and rare.

There had to be an authoritative body to ensure structure and there had to be tradition in order to teach with. God would not have left it up to the Bible to cover everything at that time- His church wouldn't survive.

Jesus wasn't telling people to take notes so they could leave behind a comprehensive list of instructions- he was telling them to "do". He told them to preach- that is oral tradition.

 

[leeinator]

Actually she didn't have to beg Him to do it. She only stated to Him that they have no more wine. He took it from there. There's a lesson in this somewhere.

Scriptures indicate he was somewhat annoyed by mom insisting he do it. I think Jesus felt it was something that just wasn't important in the big scheme of things.....otherwise, why would he say to his mom ...."woman, why do you involve me with this?" However, on the other hand, it was a big miracle in light of helping his disciples and others come to know, that yes, Jesus was indeed the Son of God that could only do things like this.

 

[FreeDawg]

My thought is there wouldn't be a church today from which to even have all of these branches off of- it wouldn't have survived if it were supposed to wait around for Bibles to be produced. They took a long time to make, they were handwritten- many people didn't read or write then. You had to write them in a language that could be understood by the people of that land. They were very expensive and rare.

There had to be an authoritative body to ensure structure and there had to be tradition in order to teach with. God would not have left it up to the Bible to cover everything at that time- His church wouldn't survive.

That's a great point. I just googled it because it made me think. The world literacy rate crossed 50% in 1950. The West is so much more educated that the ME, especially historically, I think we take for granted how much traditions depend on who was doing the reading and explaining. And that dovetails in to who has authority.

Semi-related to this train of thought was a convo I had with one of my mentors (Baptist preacher) probably 6 months ago. We were talking about how me and my wife check out famous cathedrals when we go to big cities and how beautiful they are. Some are literally breathtaking. I asked him why so many cathedrals built over a hundred years ago in the US, and hundreds to thousand years ago in Europe, are so beautiful and why so many protestant churches are bland to ugly. He explained that early Christians couldn't read so part of the spiritual experience since they couldn't read included imagery especially including biblical scenes on the walls. He said that protestants deemed that the artwork took away from the focus on god, especially after literacy picked up. I was like, that's kind of dumb. You walk in to a beautiful cathedral for mass and it definitely puts you in a new mental place of focus for mass. He said he didn't disagree with me but was explaining why. Something I had never pondered.

 

[POTUS]

This is a great question because my 1 biggest hangup during and after RCIA was the ever virgin belief. It wasn’t a deal breaker for me but my argument during class with the teachers was we can agree on immaculate conception but if she was an ever virgin that means Jesus had no siblings as noted and also the marriage wasn’t consummated so it wasn’t valid. The siblings part is often explained as Jewish tradition of several families living together (cousins) and also I’ve read that Joseph was previously married. That comes from apocryphal writings later. The lay minister at my church did not have a good answer. It bothered me for years, not in a deal breaking way, but I’ll get hung up on something that can’t be logically explained to me. A priest on X answered this for me in DMs like 2 years ago. His answer that satisfied my hangup:

“Hey, thank you for asking — and no worries at all. That’s a genuinely thoughtful question, and you’re not the first to wonder about it. It's great that you're digging into it honestly.

In Jewish custom at the time of Mary and Joseph, marriage had two distinct stages: the betrothal (erusin) and the home-taking (nisuin). Betrothal was more than what we’d call engagement — it was a legal bond, and ending it required a formal divorce. But the couple didn’t yet live together. The second stage, nisuin, happened when the husband formally brought the wife into his home — that’s when they began life as husband and wife.

Now here’s the important bit: bringing a woman into one's home was the formal beginning of married life, not necessarily its consummation. Consummation was expected but not legally required for the marriage to be valid in the eyes of the law and community — especially if there was a mutual vow of continence. In fact, there are records in Jewish history (and later Christian tradition too) of so-called Josephite marriages, where spouses lived in celibate fidelity for spiritual reasons.

So Mary and Joseph were truly married — Joseph took her into his home (Matthew 1:24), which marked the nisuin. But their unique vocation involved a shared mission of guarding the mystery of Christ — and Joseph accepted that mission with full faith and obedience.

It’s not a loophole — it’s love on a whole other level.”

I appreciate you taking the time to answer this but I will also admit that doesn’t do it for me. Occam’s Razor says Jesus has normal siblings and perpetual virginity does nothing for me as far as Jesus claims of who he is. Agree to disagree there.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Peptides make Lent easy

 

[CEO2044]

I appreciate you taking the time to answer this but I will also admit that doesn’t do it for me. Occam’s Razor says Jesus has normal siblings and perpetual virginity does nothing for me as far as Jesus claims of who he is. Agree to disagree there.

I will say I don’t believe he had other siblings because He wouldn’t have asked John the Baptist to care for his mother when He died. He wouldn’t have had to ask if he had a sibling- it would have been understood as that was custom.

 

[Dawg Raid]

I will say I don’t believe he had other siblings because He wouldn’t have asked John the Baptist to care for his mother when He died. He wouldn’t have had to ask if he had a sibling- it would have been understood as that was custom.

Not John the Baptist… John the apostle. Could be (just a theory) explained by His brothers weren’t followers until after resurrection. John was the closest disciple and there at the cross.

 

[Boosh]

I was an Independent Baptist for many years (+10, was a deacon), it was a great foundational church, but had little beyond that in the way of teaching or growing. After a while, we started going to United Methodist (+15 yrs) as they had some good classes for more learning. But then they went hard left in an unbiblical way and further, wouldn't let the local church leave the denomination. So, we had to start our own Global Methodist from nothing. Got it up and running well and a bunch of power hungry Boomers came in and took it over and demanded to run it their way. ....... Right now, I'm done with churches. I had taught classes for well over 20 years and filled in when pastors were going to be out. I've gone all over on mission trips and supported missionaries independently of the churches (which I still do). But, I've worked with unsaved people for over 30 years and almost all of them are nicer and friendlier and wouldn't cut you to pieces behind your back. I've only got so many days left and the church isn't making a good case to be worthy of my days. Things might change one day.

 

[vhdawg]

Venial sin not required.

Good, I hate it when they kill those baby cows to make those delicious cutlets.

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

I do not mean to offend, but I have got to play my advocate here. I really am not trying to belittle or insult. And I am really genuinely curious to see the answers to this, but as you might guess, the guy that plays the Devil character is mostly an atheist. I was raised by a father who told me to always stay away from politics and religion as neither one of them was good for me. So, what if it is all made up? I mean not to say it is, but what if all of it is made up? What then? I guess one could say religion taught you good ways in which to live your life, but I am just really interested to know if any of you fine dad fearing folks have ever made any room for it all being a scam?

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

I'm a campbellite............A few here know what that is............

I'm a Joseph Campbell-ite. The human story has been the same since we could speak it. Religion is critical as part of that story.

 

[FreeDawg]

I appreciate you taking the time to answer this but I will also admit that doesn’t do it for me. Occam’s Razor says Jesus has normal siblings and perpetual virginity does nothing for me as far as Jesus claims of who he is. Agree to disagree there.

No problem. Not being a cradle Catholic I would say I'm probably not as Mary strong as them but I do greatly appreciate the reverence she receives. When i went to RCIA I told my wife, a cradle catholic, I loved our church but as far as converting I would go look in to it but I wasn't doing anything crazy. If anything go too weird, I was out. She had actually agreed to join the methodist church when I said I liked the catholic church better and would check it out. This was probably my biggest not sure but the explanations made me feel like it was less out there. Outside of the rosary, I've never prayed for intercession from Mary or any saints but I don't mind if thats other people's jam.

 

[FreeDawg]

I was an Independent Baptist for many years (+10, was a deacon), it was a great foundational church, but had little beyond that in the way of teaching or growing. After a while, we started going to United Methodist (+15 yrs) as they had some good classes for more learning. But then they went hard left in an unbiblical way and further, wouldn't let the local church leave the denomination. So, we had to start our own Global Methodist from nothing. Got it up and running well and a bunch of power hungry Boomers came in and took it over and demanded to run it their way. ....... Right now, I'm done with churches. I had taught classes for well over 20 years and filled in when pastors were going to be out. I've gone all over on mission trips and supported missionaries independently of the churches (which I still do). But, I've worked with unsaved people for over 30 years and almost all of them are nicer and friendlier and wouldn't cut you to pieces behind your back. I've only got so many days left and the church isn't making a good case to be worthy of my days. Things might change one day.

The UMC Global split was brutal. Majority of my childhood was UMC and seeing it get highjacked and the fallout and aftermath... Brutal. As i said earlier in this thread, nobody likes that stuff more than the devil. I really like the community aspect of my current church so don't give up!

 

[vhdawg]

I'm a Joseph Campbell-ite.

I'm an Archie Campbell-ite.

 

[CEO2044]

Not John the Baptist… John the apostle. Could be (just a theory) explained by His brothers weren’t followers until after resurrection. John was the closest disciple and there at the cross.

Correct— I thought about this when I was driving. My bad, doing too many things at one time gets me.

Edit: there are several other things that make me think he was an only child, but that one combined with other things make me believe that.

 

[Dawg Raid]

The better question for you is - what if it is true?

I do not mean to offend, but I have got to play my advocate here. I really am not trying to belittle or insult. And I am really genuinely curious to see the answers to this, but as you might guess, the guy that plays the Devil character is mostly an atheist. I was raised by a father who told me to always stay away from politics and religion as neither one of them was good for me. So, what if it is all made up? I mean not to say it is, but what if all of it is made up? What then? I guess one could say religion taught you good ways in which to live your life, but I am just really interested to know if any of you fine dad fearing folks have ever made any room for it all being a scam?

 

[J-Dawg]

The UMC Global split was brutal. Majority of my childhood was UMC and seeing it get highjacked and the fallout and aftermath... Brutal. As i said earlier in this thread, nobody likes that stuff more than the devil. I really like the community aspect of my current church so don't give up!

Spent 30 years only knowing the inside of a Southern Baptist church. The missus and I started attending a UMC church in the central MS area because we really appreciated the pastor (still do). This was in 2019ish. Then during COVID and right after all of the UMC split hit the fan and I had no idea what was going on and viewed it almost as an outsider. My church stayed UMC, but it would also be considered fairly conservative compared to other UMCs outside of the Mississippi conference.

As an outsider, "wordly" views played way too large of a part during the schism. Too many people put their faith and their concerns into the wrong areas in my humble opinion. I have my political leanings, and I have my convictions based on how I interpret scripture. As long as my local church does not start to bastardize those, then I will stay.

 

[POTUS]

I do not mean to offend, but I have got to play my advocate here. I really am not trying to belittle or insult. And I am really genuinely curious to see the answers to this, but as you might guess, the guy that plays the Devil character is mostly an atheist. I was raised by a father who told me to always stay away from politics and religion as neither one of them was good for me. So, what if it is all made up? I mean not to say it is, but what if all of it is made up? What then? I guess one could say religion taught you good ways in which to live your life, but I am just really interested to know if any of you fine dad fearing folks have ever made any room for it all being a scam?

If this offends anyone, I'm not sorry. I thought it was funny.

 

[paindonthurt]

Since you’re feeling prayerful- maybe redirect those prayers toward the profoundly disabled folks who can’t comprehend the gospel or “faith” at all- the same people whose eternal fate I’ve simply asked you about 5 times.

Just because your theology or whatever doesn’t have room for those people, doesn’t mean you have to get upset and go all church lady passive agressive- with the “Ill pray for you”. That passive agressive phrase is basically the universal sign of “I have no answer and I’m morally superior about it.” All you had to say was an honest “I don’t know.” Lay the stones down brother.

My theology is the bible and i'm 1000% sure it says to not act like you when someone starts asking about Christ and faith.

So i'll pray for you specifically.

 

[HomeBoyDawg]

Whether you are a Christian or not is really pretty simple:
1. Jesus lived. This is a fact. Historical records outside of the Bible support this and history itself is divided by His birth (BC, AD).
2. Jesus was crucified by the Romans. This is a fact. Historical records outside of the Bible support this.
3. Jesus was raised from the dead proving He was who He said He was, the Son of God. There are no historical records outside of the Bible that support this other than the resulting movement started by his followers that has lasted thousands of years and resulted in unmeasurable good worldwide (we tend to focus only on the negative). These early followers were willing to lay down their lives to tell His story and carry out His mission.

Christians believe number 3 by faith and accept that His crucifixion paid their sin debt.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

I do not mean to offend, but I have got to play my advocate here. I really am not trying to belittle or insult. And I am really genuinely curious to see the answers to this, but as you might guess, the guy that plays the Devil character is mostly an atheist. I was raised by a father who told me to always stay away from politics and religion as neither one of them was good for me. So, what if it is all made up? I mean not to say it is, but what if all of it is made up? What then? I guess one could say religion taught you good ways in which to live your life, but I am just really interested to know if any of you fine dad fearing folks have ever made any room for it all being a scam?

If you enjoy The Western Culture with its freedoms & liberties, you have Christianity to thank whether you believe in it or not.

As a religion & faith it has shaped your life drastically.

 

[Dawg Raid]

Whether you are a Christian or not is really pretty simple:
1. Jesus lived. This is a fact. Historical records outside of the Bible support this and history itself is divided by His birth (BC, AD).
2. Jesus was crucified by the Romans. This is a fact. Historical records outside of the Bible support this.
3. Jesus was raised from the dead proving He was who He said He was, the Son of God. There are no historical records outside of the Bible that support this other than the resulting movement started by his followers that has lasted thousands of years and resulted in unmeasurable good worldwide (we tend to focus only on the negative). These early followers were willing to lay down their lives to tell His story and carry out His mission.

Christians believe number 3 by faith and accept that His crucifixion paid their sin debt.

 

[HomeBoyDawg]

^^^That's incredibly strong.

 

[theoriginalSALTYdog]

I'm a Joseph Campbell-ite. The human story has been the same since we could speak it. Religion is critical as part of that story.

The man used to make a damn good soup............

 

[TrueMaroonGrind]

I was an Independent Baptist for many years (+10, was a deacon), it was a great foundational church, but had little beyond that in the way of teaching or growing. After a while, we started going to United Methodist (+15 yrs) as they had some good classes for more learning. But then they went hard left in an unbiblical way and further, wouldn't let the local church leave the denomination. So, we had to start our own Global Methodist from nothing. Got it up and running well and a bunch of power hungry Boomers came in and took it over and demanded to run it their way. ....... Right now, I'm done with churches. I had taught classes for well over 20 years and filled in when pastors were going to be out. I've gone all over on mission trips and supported missionaries independently of the churches (which I still do). But, I've worked with unsaved people for over 30 years and almost all of them are nicer and friendlier and wouldn't cut you to pieces behind your back. I've only got so many days left and the church isn't making a good case to be worthy of my days. Things might change one day.

I’m sorry you had to go through all that. Power struggles in churches are devastating and you went through two of them back to back.

 

[HailStout]

 

[bulldoghair]

My theology is the bible and i'm 1000% sure it says to not act like you when someone starts asking about Christ and faith.

So i'll pray for you specifically.

Thanks for the prayers, brother.

So what about the profoundly mentally challenged people who literally cannot comprehend the gospel, faith, or any “documentation as-is”?

Does God require their faith to strong enough, or clear enough, or even present?

 

[CEO2044]

Speaking of- for the Sola Scripture folks:

Where exactly in the Bible is that?

Still very curious about this— where can I find Sola Scriptura written in the Bible?

 

[PapaDawg]

I am Christian… denomination is Baptist due to greatest alignment with beliefs but I think we need to drop the denominations and focus on Jesus

Amen

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Thanks for the prayers, brother.

So what about the profoundly mentally challenged people who literally cannot comprehend the gospel, faith, or any “documentation as-is”?

Does God require their faith to strong enough, or clear enough, or even present?

I’m laughing here…

You have no 17ing experience in education— the kids would drive you crazy

When it comes to critical thinking skills— you have none. You just parrot back what you think is right to you without expanding on it or going further

Stick to being the doofus that you are

 

[paindonthurt]

Still very curious about this— where can I find Sola Scriptura written in the Bible?

No idea what Sola Scripture is or what you mean

 

[paindonthurt]

Does God require their faith to strong enough, or clear enough, or even present?

Huh?

 

[CEO2044]

No idea what Sola Scripture is or what you mean

People on this thread have mentioned it- I wasn’t necessarily speaking to you. It means you only believe what is in the Bible and nothing else- but where is this in the Bible?

I am still waiting on your answer to what you kept badgering me about, though.

 

[paindonthurt]

People on this thread have mentioned it- I wasn’t necessarily speaking to you. It means you only believe what is in the Bible and nothing else- but where is this in the Bible?

I am still waiting on your answer to what you kept badgering me about, though.

I’ll answer when you provide scripture.