Scoring Output
- Thread starter Left Coast Pirates
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What’s crazy is that everyone is going bananas over the down big east year and the fact that Sha doesn’t have this team NCAA ready. It’s literally no room for error with the conference being so pedestrian
While I'm ridiculously frustrated with some of these losses (St John’s and Creighton, of course), SHU has never been blown out. A huge difference from last year and something nobody—nobody—expected.
I’m hoping Sha uses this season as a way to realize he needs some outside offensive firepower.
On a separate note, I’d just love to know what coach everyone thinks would have gotten us to an NCAA game during this NIL era with the resources we’ve had.
While I'm ridiculously frustrated with some of these losses (St John’s and Creighton, of course), SHU has never been blown out. A huge difference from last year and something nobody—nobody—expected.
I’m hoping Sha uses this season as a way to realize he needs some outside offensive firepower.
On a separate note, I’d just love to know what coach everyone thinks would have gotten us to an NCAA game during this NIL era with the resources we’ve had.
If the conference was not pedestrian we’d be 3-10. Thankfully it is and unfortunately these are the times seton hall needs to crush it because when it’s not pedestrian it’s advantage money and resources and we don’t have it. A year like this one when you’re 14-2 and a lot of winnable games on the schedule that’s your opportunity.
It's definitely consistent. But it's factually "worse," which the other guy wasn't understanding, that's all.
Why do you say it has nothing to do with basketball? I've never met the man, no personal ill-will towards him. I even liked him as a player - leader of a team that got to the sweet 16 the very first year I started following Seton Hall as a kid. My disgust has everything to do with basketball - he runs a hideous style of play and has no idea how to coach an offense at this level. I supported his hire at the time, but it became clear to me after year 2 that he doesn't have the chops. That's when I gave up my season tickets and stopped supporting him.
You can’t feed Payne in the post. Payne is horrible. There’s no reason Hines doesn’t get the ball. Sha does not put him in position to have success
Since they started at Brendan Byrne. But not sure what that has to do with anything I said. We can win here. It’s not as impossible as everyone wants to make it. Make the tournament in a year like this and maybe a few people come out of the woodwork. If people think you’re going to take their money and go to the NIT, why bother. Why can’t Sha be the next Brad Stevens at Butler? A program that had an uphill climb of 100+ teams with bigger payrolls. Why not us? We just say shucks they got more money, .500 or close to it is good enough. 6-7 no blowouts, what a win this season is.
Yeah idk about BE down or what ifs or another coach. If you look at our overall metrics and SOV, we’re not a bad team. We just play a rough brand of ball and we’re really bad on one side which is why we’re mediocre in the BE right now.
But hey, maybe we got hot. It’s still there to get, albeit a long shot.
Yes and yes.
Moneywise, you have to allocate a high% to your Bigs - they get a premium in today's landscape. We spent about 25% of our budget this year on the position.
You get a full offseason to work with him. There's no reason why he shouldn't average a double-double and block a ton of shots. For a freshman big, his production has been excellent. All of his percentages and efficiency metrics are superb. His minutes as the season progressed are puzzling but he's a guy you can project a lot more production for next year so he has to be a priority.
The other big difference in the last 7-8 years under Willard is the team usually rallied late in the season to do what was needed to clinch those NCAA bids. Sha needs to show he can do that. The NIT year wasn't bad but not winning a game in the BET didn't help.
Willard’s teams won some big games and played with better offensive players. Sha’s teams have yet to prove that, thus why may be 0/4 NCAA and already 0-3 BET record despite some similar net metrics rankings. While similar styles, Sha’s version is more extreme.
Sha’s teams have also fallen off late consistently, not gotten better like KW’s.
2023: 8-5, 2-6
2024: 6-1, 7-7
2026: 4-1, 2-6
Definitely more extreme. One other thought is that at this point in Willard’s tenure everything looked to be heading backwards. He started off with two top 60 teams (with Gonzo recruits) and then in years 3, 4 and 5 we dropped to 117th, 94th and 83rd. Shaheen’s program is stagnating, not heading backwards, so there’s more reason to believe he can get it done here.
With Willard, the school did something after year 4 that I’m sure was uncomfortable (not to us but to them) to help get him top end talent. It paid off in a big way. We saved ourselves a buyout and restored the program.
Why not try something similar this offseason? Invest bigger in next year’s team and let Shaheen start with Budd, Hines, TJ, a shooter and a competent 4. A team like that will be preseason top 25. If nothing else, we will learn from that investment whether Shaheen can get it done at this level with appropriate talent.
It's a must. I'm not sure I can stomach Hines being poached by Rutgers or dare I say Pitino again. Sha's mismanagement of his minutes has been alarming this year, but Sha is old school and makes players earn their stripes. He has yet to fully adjust to this new era of college basketball. Hopefully if he offers them enough money (not what he thinks their worth, but what the market dictates), he can build continuity and stabilize his program. If he matches or exceeds offers and they still take off, a deeper question needs to be asked.
I think people just want something to be excited about going into next season. Who wasn't excited when we landed Delgado, Carrington and Whitehead? Then we capped off that season with the Gibbs step back. Tons to be excited about. As Mr. Piratz said we've finished the big east season like crap in all 3 seasons. Show us signs that we're getting better and at a great rate than our competition.
How about UCONN? They need to replace Reed and Hurley has shown he likes to have 2 bigs, even if they play differently.
I do think we are perhaps overestimating his perceived value. Especially without knowing whatever 5s are out there from the mid major level, on another high majors bench or internationally.
Btw, if you look at the top of the standings across college hoops, there are plenty of “old school” coaches who make players earn minutes. This isn’t some unique thing to Sha.
Thought about UConn after I posted. Wouldn't be the first time he robbed us of a big man.
But can those old school coaches provide the funds to keep a potentially unhappy player? For the record, I think money talks a lot louder than playing time for most of these guys. Hines isn't going to offer a hometown discount, nor should he. He will go to the highest bidder without a doubt in my mind. I suppose the only chance of that not happening is locking him up before the end of the season, but I have my doubts on that. We've seen this movie before with Kadary.
What was it again if Willard had stayed, Adama Sanogo + Posh? At least the rumor?
OMG I raised Posh on this board again…
Message board goal for 2026.What was it again if Willard had stayed, Adama Sanogo + Posh? At least the rumor?
OMG I raised Posh on this board again…
1 entire thread that doesn't mention the word Willard.
He's gone. He's moved on. This board should do the same unless we're playing Nova.
Wow a Posh citing! It's been a while. lol
Next Cern is gonna bring up that little PG he loved and someone is going to ask why we don't have lacrosse.
Next Cern is gonna bring up that little PG he loved and someone is going to ask why we don't have lacrosse.
If only Malachi Brown actually turned out to be the next Allen Iverson, Sha may have won a natty by now…
Imagine the young Iverson, Baby Mamu and Baby Jokic humming together
At least we still have Mbaye.Imagine the young Iverson, Baby Mamu and Baby Jokic humming together
You, of all posters, trying to make it sound like Dawes really regressed shows your true colors. Sha pissed in your Wheaties, it’s painfully obvious.
I responded to you, no more whining on The Trove from you.
You missed the point on the Dawes thing. It's a good shooting percentage, but he was technically better at Clemson. That's all.
Funny how you were on the board all night last night, didn't reply, and just saw my post a few minutes calling you out on the Trove for your cheap shot, so you jumped in here with a weak reply to cover yourself. Cowardly, as I said. It's disappointing that you'd throw away years of goodwill all because you don't like my opinion of the current coach. But whatever, to each their own. I can't change how you feel and if you want to hold a grudge against me because of it, so be it. I thought you were better than that, but I guess not.
I get that you're defending your friend, but I've never met the guy. You are dead wrong and out of line. My opinions are formed entirely by his terrible style of play and awful offensive coaching. He can coach a pressing defense. That's about it in my view.
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Technically, if you took any Statistics courses at Seton Hall, he was not better at Clemson.
Take all the personal shots you want at me, I don’t care, I’m a big boy, but let’s look at this:
You gave up on Sha after his second season here after a 13-7 BE record in a better BE than we have now? It was, in your words, “clear to me after year 2 that he doesn't have the chops.“
That is laugh out loud funny, that doesn’t pass the smell test of any rational fan, which you use to be. Hence my comment that Sha is personal to you.
I ask again, how could something be personal when I've never met him? Never spoken to him, never emailed him, nothing. Talk about laughable....
If you recall, in his second season Seton Hall was a disaster in the non-conference. Played much better in the Big East and NIT for sure, but they weren't ready at the start of the season. Beat up on cupcakes and lost to every decent team they played. That told me a lot. Year two also revealed more about his style of play, which I've mentioned I can't stand. The poor non-conference left them subject to being bounced by the bid stealers, of which there were a record amount. The team was buoyed by more talented players such as Davis, Richmond, Bediako, and Dawes (who wasn't good his JR year by the way, but was great his SR year). Holloway did a pretty good job with the transfer market early on, I'll admit that.
I mean, you started the fight and made me defend myself. I truly respected you for many years on this board. I'm just taken aback by your sudden turn on me. It was never like you to rag on people solely for their opinions. I'm the same poster I've always been - never afraid to be blunt and share my opinion. I will move on either way, it's just a bit disappointing. I won't hold a grudge, and I hope you won't either.
I've been on here after wins. I'll comment on the next one if I"m able to watch the game.
Dawes was basically the same player he was at Clemson. Barely better, barely worse, who cares. Why is a player who put in 4 years of watching film, 4 years of practice, 4 years in the weight room, shooting the same the same percentage as a 22 year old as an elder statesman that he was shooting when he was 18 when he was going up against much physically more mature players. Regression maybe, maybe not. That's in the eye of the beholder, One thing it is definitely not is progress over 4 years.
Maybe in a well-run offensive strategy he would have progressed. Maybe he was forced to take more difficult shots because our "offense" has no ball movement. Maybe a lot of things. But one thing clear is our offense sucks and historically Sha has always sucked at coaching offense. That IS statistically significant.
Glad you brought him up as posters here seem to be forgetting the talent we might be developing for coming seasons?
That may be true but he did get pretty far with his style of play in the NCAA tourney knocking off some impressive schools in the process.
Dawes was a good kid, but it took him 1 1/2 years to understand his role at the Hall.
In the preseason of his senior year I went to a practice and saw Dawes and Richmond play as well as any two guards in the country. During a water break I spoke mostly to Richmond and then Dawes came over. I told them if you play like that and don't be selfish you could be one of the best guard tandems in the country.
I posted as much on the Trove. But as the season began I took a lot of criticism (deserved) for my comments. But as the season progressed, maybe near midpoint, all of a sudden the lights went on with Dawes and as good as Richmond was I started to post as goes Dawes so goes the Pirates. And that rang true, maybe late for some of our taste but enough to help us win the NIT.
He was an excellent get for the Hall.
In the preseason of his senior year I went to a practice and saw Dawes and Richmond play as well as any two guards in the country. During a water break I spoke mostly to Richmond and then Dawes came over. I told them if you play like that and don't be selfish you could be one of the best guard tandems in the country.
I posted as much on the Trove. But as the season began I took a lot of criticism (deserved) for my comments. But as the season progressed, maybe near midpoint, all of a sudden the lights went on with Dawes and as good as Richmond was I started to post as goes Dawes so goes the Pirates. And that rang true, maybe late for some of our taste but enough to help us win the NIT.
He was an excellent get for the Hall.
Just another example of why it takes time for players to adapt to a new coach and role.
I feel like this was sort of true for the Willard / Whitehead PG dynamic.
Isaiah had a solid freshman year but didn’t really turn the corner until a couple of checkpoints in his sophomore year.
The first for me was his game against USF. Solely focused on being a distributor that day and embraced the concept of being a PG.
But it wasn’t until after the starters got benched at home vs Creighton that he really took off.
from that game on through the BET he went
21 PPG : 5.7 APG : 4.5 RPG and shot 42% from 3.
Why it all has to play out. Are we part of a predetermined leveling out or can play improve? Such is life with us humans.
7 games left.
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