Different Year, Same Outcome

I wouldn’t say it’s a disturbing trend. It’s kind of who Izzo has been since the 2000 title. An all time great who has come up short whether due to bad luck (Lucas injury in 2010 or COVID) and subpar performances in spots like tonight, UConn in 2014, or TTU in 2019. I’ll still ride with him and think he has this program in as good as spot as any to cut down nets. Just such a hard sport to win

No matter how much talent you have players still have to make plays in crunch time. Today, where was Scott and Teng. They have done it before, make a shot or two and its a different game. Fears misses a one and one in the first half, that stuff kills in a tight game.

Well, we definitely need to replace some of the production from Cooper and Kohler. There’s going to be some difference makers at the 5. Hope we pull the trigger and spend the money to get some of that production back.

When winning 27 games is a "disturbing trend" you know you've lost perspective.

CoachSecor said:

When winning 27 games is a "disturbing trend" you know you've lost perspective.

I agree with you that this team punched above their weight class. But the way I see it, with the resources, culture, and HOF coach, MSU shouldn't have to punch above their weight class to hang with these teams. They should have the talent already, and then Izzo develops them into the best versions of themselves My uninformed $0.02

@ClippertSt this is the truth, whether others want to hear it or not. While this team overachieved again and this season shouldn’t be looked down upon, I’m so sick of the talent edge of these buzz saw programs consistently resulting in season ends, and the feeling of “we are 1 difference maker away” from what we want to achieve. We have talent, and always have had talent. We also have OKGs that blossom into important pieces unlike any other program. But we never have enough it seems. It was evident against Auburn last season. It was evident last night. Against this years version of scUM. And has been exposed against the Dukes, UNCs, etc of the world for the last 25 years. This shouldn’t be an issue with our program - we are widely considered a blue blood - we have mega donors who would empty their pockets on this program for Izzo if he insisted so - and we have the greatest ambassador for the game and HOFer as our HC But Coach HAS to step outside of his comfort zone a bit this offseason. The clock is ticking. You have to pony up and add at least one, if not two difference makers this offseason and assimilate them into this programs culture. It’s clear that transfers under Izzo have been able to. Retain. Maybe have a tough conversation or two with specific players. Go get a top 5 transfer C. Grab a scoring wing. And 26-27 could be one of his best teams ever. Again.. this is all falls on if Coach is going to evolve a bit this offseason.

How many times you going to keep creating the same thread

Omnomnomnivore said:

I agree with you that this team punched above their weight class. But the way I see it, with the resources, culture, and HOF coach, MSU shouldn't have to punch above their weight class to hang with these teams. They should have the talent already, and then Izzo develops them into the best versions of themselves My uninformed $0.02

Fair take, IMO

So let me ask. Who thinks Izzo is going to bring in a stud 5? What about a Zapala type center?

GreenWhite said:

So let me ask. Who thinks Izzo is going to bring in a stud 5? What about a Zapala type center?

I would be fine with a center with Zapalas size and offensive skillset but they need to be able to play defense and rebound first and foremost. That version of Zapala would be the perfect fit IMO

I don’t believe @ClippertSt created a thread like this. No way. All you can ask is to be in the hunt every year and we always are. We are spoiled.

CoachSecor said:

When winning 27 games is a "disturbing trend" you know you've lost perspective.

Holy sh*t man, this is exactly what is wrong with this fanbase. So you’re just okay coming up short in the big game every single time just because of how many regular season games we won? 2000 is so far in the distant past, nobody even looks at that as relevant anymore. The disturbing trend is consistently losing against great teams because we don’t have enough talent. That’s something that we can control. We aren’t exactly Minnesota— we’re Michigan State, so let’s act like it and stop settling. We have all the resources to be just as talented as these teams that we’ve come up short against.

ClippertSt said:

Holy sh*t man, this is exactly what is wrong with this fanbase. So you’re just okay coming up short in the big game every single time just because of how many regular season games we won? 2000 is so far in the distant past, nobody even looks at that as relevant anymore. The disturbing trend is consistently losing against great teams because we don’t have enough talent. That’s something that we can control. We aren’t exactly Minnesota— we’re Michigan State, so let’s act like it and stop settling. We have all the resources to be just as talented as these teams that we’ve come up short against.

How does the fan base “settling” or “expecting more” impact how many games the team wins or how the program operates? If I go on every social media site and “demand” better, does that mean it will change?

v2spartan said:

@ClippertSt this is the truth, whether others want to hear it or not. While this team overachieved again and this season shouldn’t be looked down upon, I’m so sick of the talent edge of these buzz saw programs consistently resulting in season ends, and the feeling of “we are 1 difference maker away” from what we want to achieve. We have talent, and always have had talent. We also have OKGs that blossom into important pieces unlike any other program. But we never have enough it seems. It was evident against Auburn last season. It was evident last night. Against this years version of scUM. And has been exposed against the Dukes, UNCs, etc of the world for the last 25 years. This shouldn’t be an issue with our program - we are widely considered a blue blood - we have mega donors who would empty their pockets on this program for Izzo if he insisted so - and we have the greatest ambassador for the game and HOFer as our HC But Coach HAS to step outside of his comfort zone a bit this offseason. The clock is ticking. You have to pony up and add at least one, if not two difference makers this offseason and assimilate them into this programs culture. It’s clear that transfers under Izzo have been able to. Retain. Maybe have a tough conversation or two with specific players. Go get a top 5 transfer C. Grab a scoring wing. And 26-27 could be one of his best teams ever. Again.. this is all falls on if Coach is going to evolve a bit this offseason.

Crazy that most of our fanbase can’t seem to wrap their heads around this simple concept…

ClippertSt said:

Holy sh*t man, this is exactly what is wrong with this fanbase. So you’re just okay coming up short in the big game every single time just because of how many regular season games we won? 2000 is so far in the distant past, nobody even looks at that as relevant anymore. The disturbing trend is consistently losing against great teams because we don’t have enough talent. That’s something that we can control. We aren’t exactly Minnesota— we’re Michigan State, so let’s act like it and stop settling. We have all the resources to be just as talented as these teams that we’ve come up short against.

Which program would you rather be a fan of since then? I’ll give you Duke, UConn, Florida and North Carolina (but not right now). Winning one NC with a bunch of mediocre seasons mixed in doesn’t make a Baylor, Kentucky, Virginia, etc better. We have been consistently knocking at the door. Need to break through but it’s not for a lack of coaching or roster building.

dkoning1 said:

Which program would you rather be a fan of since then? I’ll give you Duke, UConn, Florida and North Carolina (but not right now). Winning one NC with a bunch of mediocre seasons mixed in doesn’t make a Baylor, Kentucky, Virginia, etc better. We have been consistently knocking at the door. Need to break through but it’s not for a lack of coaching or roster building.

Well said. Another issue with these types of posts is their void of any basketball analysis. It’s just “get better players.”

GreenWhite said:

So let me ask. Who thinks Izzo is going to bring in a stud 5? What about a Zapala type center?

What is a "stud 5?" I don't expect a guy who is going to be the leading or second leading scorer on the team, and people tend to use those terms on offensive players. I expect a guy with good size who is a plus-rebounder and defender. Someone very similar to Carson Cooper. Is that a "stud" by your definition? I'm not sure.

CoachSecor said:

Well said. Another issue with these types of posts is their void of any basketball analysis. It’s just “get better players.”

If you don’t think we need a better player or 2 after last night, I don’t know what game you were watching “Coach.”

SpartanMike said:

What is a "stud 5?" I don't expect a guy who is going to be the leading or second leading scorer on the team, and people tend to use those terms on offensive players. I expect a guy with good size who is a plus-rebounder and defender. Someone very similar to Carson Cooper. Is that a "stud" by your definition? I'm not sure.

The people dreaming of the portal bringing in NBA talent for us are going to be in for a rude awakening when Izzo hangs it up

ClippertSt said:

Holy sh*t man, this is exactly what is wrong with this fanbase. So you’re just okay coming up short in the big game every single time just because of how many regular season games we won? 2000 is so far in the distant past, nobody even looks at that as relevant anymore. The disturbing trend is consistently losing against great teams because we don’t have enough talent. That’s something that we can control. We aren’t exactly Minnesota— we’re Michigan State, so let’s act like it and stop settling. We have all the resources to be just as talented as these teams that we’ve come up short against.

If it was just as easy as spending money, UK and MSU wouldn't have the same number of national titles since 1998.

ClippertSt said:

If you don’t think we need a better player or 2 after last night, I don’t know what game you were watching “Coach.”

MSU absolutely without doubt had the talent to win that game

SpartanMike said:

What is a "stud 5?" I don't expect a guy who is going to be the leading or second leading scorer on the team, and people tend to use those terms on offensive players. I expect a guy with good size who is a plus-rebounder and defender. Someone very similar to Carson Cooper. Is that a "stud" by your definition? I'm not sure.

Many won’t be happy if the guy brought in isn’t on some silly transfer ranking list, likely in the top 5 of said silly list.

dkoning1 said:

MSU absolutely without doubt had the talent to win that game

Hard disagree, lol. 2 guard spot was non-existent once again and our frontcourt simply wasn’t good enough. Doesn’t mean they didn’t play their asses off.

ClippertSt said:

If you don’t think we need a better player or 2 after last night, I don’t know what game you were watching “Coach.”

You can demean me all you want. Proud of what I’ve done in the game for the last 30 years. IMO - We had enough talent to win that game last night. How do you lead a game late in the 2nd have and not be feasibly good enough to win?