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1stGenerationHeelFeb 11, 3:50 PM

Why Do Folks Think The Current State is Unique to Hubert?

The exact same things happened during Roy's tenure as a coach here, but I think as usual folks have biases they are unable to get past. Some folks never wanted Hubert to be coach and hold that against him. Some folks hold to this idea that UNC wasn't already losing its footing as a consistent top 10 team. Here are just a few examples from Roy's tenure and I know there are plenty of others across the years. [TABLE] [TR] [TD]Year[/TD] [TD]Result[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2018-2019[/TD] [TD]17 pt loss to Michigan after win against UCLA[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2018-2019[/TD] [TD]21 point loss to Louisville at home after big win @ State. This was a 13 loss Louisville team[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2017-2018[/TD] [TD]4 point loss at home to Wofford after big win against Tenn[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2016-2017 (this team won a title)[/TD] [TD]15 point loss at Miami after big win at VT. This was a 12 loss Miami team[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2014-2015[/TD] [TD]12 point loss to State at home after big win vs GT. This was a 13 loss State team[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
290 Replies
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mpaer

Feb 11, 3:51 PM

Wofford did not happen-in my brain
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THB15

Feb 11, 3:54 PM

I don't really understand what this is supposed to accomplish. If anything, it's further confirmation that Carolina may not have made a sound choice by handing the program to a long term assistant under a coach who was already losing his footing. I'd imagine most people who are willing to think critically recognize that Davis did not take over a program that was humming on all cylinders. But how long is a large enough sample size for him to correct that to get back to some level of historical norms? Just materially different to have a bad night and lose a game in a season where you're a #1 seed and win the ACC vs. what we're heading towards right now.
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GoWhitePhantoms

Feb 11, 3:54 PM

Row 1 and 2, a one seed that tied for acc champs Row 3 a two seed that won the acc tournament and beat a lot of ranked teams Row 4: obvious Row 5: 4 seed in a 'down' year The worst year in that table would be just a notch behind CHD's best year!
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CarolinaBlue

Feb 11, 3:55 PM

Do you think the number of times per season that "these things happened" under Roy is the same that it has been under Hubert?
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Tarheelfan87

Feb 11, 3:56 PM

1stGenerationHeel said:
The exact same things happened during Roy's tenure as a coach here, but I think as usual folks have biases they are unable to get past. Some folks never wanted Hubert to be coach and hold that against him. Some folks hold to this idea that UNC wasn't already losing its footing as a consistent top 10 team. Here are just a few examples from Roy's tenure and I know there are plenty of others across the years. [TABLE] [TR] [TD]Year[/TD] [TD]Result[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2018-2019[/TD] [TD]17 pt loss to Michigan after win against UCLA[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2018-2019[/TD] [TD]21 point loss to Louisville at home after big win @ State. This was a 13 loss Louisville team[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2017-2018[/TD] [TD]4 point loss at home to Wofford after big win against Tenn[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2016-2017 (this team won a title)[/TD] [TD]15 point loss at Miami after big win at VT. This was a 12 loss Miami team[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2014-2015[/TD] [TD]12 point loss to State at home after big win vs GT. This was a 13 loss State [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
In 2019, one of the years you have listed, we were a 1 seed. In 2017, one of the years you have listed, we were a 1 seed. You are making examples with complete “1 offs”.. Hubert’s entire tenure is 1 giant pile of inconsistency.
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Heelfiend

Feb 11, 3:57 PM

1stGenerationHeel said:
The exact same things happened during Roy's tenure as a coach here, but I think as usual folks have biases they are unable to get past. Some folks never wanted Hubert to be coach and hold that against him. Some folks hold to this idea that UNC wasn't already losing its footing as a consistent top 10 team. Here are just a few examples from Roy's tenure and I know there are plenty of others across the years. [TABLE] [TR] [TD]Year[/TD] [TD]Result[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2018-2019[/TD] [TD]17 pt loss to Michigan after win against UCLA[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2018-2019[/TD] [TD]21 point loss to Louisville at home after big win @ State. This was a 13 loss Louisville team[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2017-2018[/TD] [TD]4 point loss at home to Wofford after big win against Tenn[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2016-2017 (this team won a title)[/TD] [TD]15 point loss at Miami after big win at VT. This was a 12 loss Miami team[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]2014-2015[/TD] [TD]12 point loss to State at home after big win vs GT. This was a 13 loss State team[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
Do all the examples from Roy and all the examples from Hubert. I bet Hubert has a ton more in just the 5 years.
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OldTownRunner

Feb 11, 3:58 PM

I like HD and personally think he’s grown as a coach. I’m not satisfied, however. Biggest complaint is inconsistency. Our Q1 record was elite and then good under Coach Williams, and now is mediocre (middle of ACC) under HD. So frustrating.
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SecondHalfPaige5

Feb 11, 3:59 PM

Half (and that's being generous) of your examples are completely cherry picked. UCLA win wasn't a big win. The game at Michigan was in late November, not early/mid February EVERYBODY was upset about the Wofford loss. This place was a madhouse after that game. VT in 2017 was hardly a big win. They were a 9 seed And the most hilarious of them all... "Big win vs GT." That GT team was 12-19.
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NorthUNC

Feb 11, 4:00 PM

What a strange post.... I mean sure... Roy had 3 titles... Several of those years you listed we were top 10.. Say I even grant the thought (I dont) it gives even more reason why you don't hire a JV coach to lead one of the most storied teams in the history of college sports.
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UNCRx85

Feb 11, 4:00 PM

You're cherry-picking single instances in otherwise very successful seasons. When we regularly started taking L's like this, Roy literally stepped down.
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CHSTarheel

Feb 11, 4:05 PM

You're citing two teams that were a 1 and a 2 seed. A team that was a 1 seed that eventually won the NC, and a team that was a 4 seed when we were having a down year? I'm not sure this is proving the point you are intending.
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SwampDonkeyHeel

Feb 11, 4:05 PM

Roy's late career struggles seemed to be directly related to a fall off in recruiting / a decision to go for more 4 year players when most were going after NBA talent. That led to less talented teams that were great when they were experienced, but so so until then. That model is dead. Full stop. The transfer portal made it 100% obsolete. Nobody is staying to develop for 4 years. Hubert's job was to help reinvigorate the UNC brand at best, or at worst, maintain Roy's standard of excellence. We will look beyond the inconsistency if he excels in the post season. He has done that once and patience is running out.
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BenSherman

Feb 11, 4:06 PM

Difference here seems to be one-off bad performances vs. inconsistencies game to game and year to year.
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trolls

Feb 11, 4:06 PM

1stGenerationHeel said:
I think as usual folks have biases they are unable to get past. Some folks never wanted Hubert to be coach and hold that against him.
You really think that's what' going on here? That a small faction of Never-Huberts are constructing some false narrative to smear and spite him? I personally think it has more to do with the lackluster and inconsistent results on the court. The bar for this program is set high - perhaps impractically high - but that's the gig.
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SecondHalfPaige5

Feb 11, 4:13 PM

Let's do the same time frame even... 2015- Huge win at home vs Maryland, won the next game against Davidson 2015- Big win at home vs Miami, won the next game at State 2015- Big win at Duke, won the next game vs Pitt 2016- Won the Maui Invitational, lost at Indiana 2016- Won vs Tennessee, lost an absolute thriller to Kentucky 2016- Won vs FSU, won the next game vs Syracuse 2016- Won vs UVA, won vs Louisville the next game, then beat Pitt the next game 2016- Won vs Duke, won vs Miami the next game I think I've made enough of my point to not have to continue here.
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SecondHalfPaige5

Feb 11, 4:13 PM

BenSherman said:
Difference here seems to be one-off bad performances vs. inconsistencies game to game and year to year.
I'd even go as far as to say half to half
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1stGenerationHeel

Feb 11, 4:14 PM

I didn't exactly cherry pick, I just didn't have time to go through all of Roy's tenure at UNC. Those were literally the first years I hit without factoring n Roy's last 2 years where he was losing more than he previously did. I'm still just trying to gauge what "good enough" is going to be around here or will this place just be miserable all the time (regardless wo the coach is)? If Hubert's replacement isn't immediately top 10 are you going to start 30 threads a week asking him to be fired (that happened for Hubert within the first two years of his tenure).
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SecondHalfPaige5

Feb 11, 4:18 PM

1stGenerationHeel said:
I didn't exactly cherry pick, I just didn't have time to go through all of Roy's tenure at UNC. Those were literally the first years I hit without factoring n Roy's last 2 years where he was losing more than he previously did. I'm still just trying to gauge what "good enough" is going to be around here or will this place just be miserable all the time (regardless wo the coach is)? If Hubert's replacement isn't immediately top 10 are you going to start 30 threads a week asking him to be fired (that happened for Hubert within the first two years of his tenure).
I like how you frame an 8 seed, NIT, 1 seed, 11 seed, and probably 5/6 seed as "I'm not sure what will be good enough or if this place will just be miserable all the time." Roy's seeds by the way... 6, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1, NIT, 2, 1, 8, 6, 4, 1, 1, 2, 1, No Tournament, 8
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GregBarnes

Feb 11, 4:20 PM

1stGenerationHeel said:
I didn't exactly cherry pick, I just didn't have time to go through all of Roy's tenure at UNC. Those were literally the first years I hit without factoring n Roy's last 2 years where he was losing more than he previously did. I'm still just trying to gauge what "good enough" is going to be around here or will this place just be miserable all the time (regardless wo the coach is)? If Hubert's replacement isn't immediately top 10 are you going to start 30 threads a week asking him to be fired (that happened for Hubert within the first two years of his tenure).
This is your thread, so what is good enough for you?
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THB15

Feb 11, 4:20 PM

1stGenerationHeel said:
I'm still just trying to gauge what "good enough" is going to be around here or will this place just be miserable all the time (regardless wo the coach is)? If Hubert's replacement isn't immediately top 10 are you going to start 30 threads a week asking him to be fired (that happened for Hubert within the first two years of his tenure).
Everyone will have different flavors of what is good enough, but UNC performing at a level that would classify as top 10 over reasonable time horizons (5 year, 10 year, 15 year) is satisfactory. Winning titles is hard, being a top 5 team every year is hard, but if the last 6.5 years of North Carolina basketball are what we should expect moving forward, then we are simply acknowledging we're in a spot where the level of excellence we've been accustomed to over the last 6 or 7 decades should no longer be the expectation moving forward.
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JeepCSC

Feb 11, 4:21 PM

1stGenerationHeel said:
I didn't exactly cherry pick, I just didn't have time to go through all of Roy's tenure at UNC. Those were literally the first years I hit without factoring n Roy's last 2 years where he was losing more than he previously did. I'm still just trying to gauge what "good enough" is going to be around here or will this place just be miserable all the time (regardless wo the coach is)? If Hubert's replacement isn't immediately top 10 are you going to start 30 threads a week asking him to be fired (that happened for Hubert within the first two years of his tenure).
One of those years was the first time EVER a preseason #1 team didn’t make the tournament. Thats a pretty big caveat for us being hard on Hubert.
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1stGenerationHeel

Feb 11, 4:22 PM

BenSherman said:
Difference here seems to be one-off bad performances vs. inconsistencies game to game and year to year.
I would also argue the level of talent Roy had when he started here at UNC was light year's better than what he left Hubert (4 NBA players vs 1). Not that RJ and Bacot weren't relatively talented to their peers, but they weren't May, Felton, McCants level. So again I ask, if Hubert is canned and the talent level is where it was when Roy left what comparisons are going to be made? Does the new coach get compared to Hubert or compared to Dean and Roy?
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UNCPSUFAN

Feb 11, 4:23 PM

1stGenerationHeel said:
I didn't exactly cherry pick, I just didn't have time to go through all of Roy's tenure at UNC. Those were literally the first years I hit without factoring n Roy's last 2 years where he was losing more than he previously did. I'm still just trying to gauge what "good enough" is going to be around here or will this place just be miserable all the time (regardless wo the coach is)? If Hubert's replacement isn't immediately top 10 are you going to start 30 threads a week asking him to be fired (that happened for Hubert within the first two years of his tenure).
You should know "what is good enough around here." Be consistent and compete at high level and win some regular season ACC titles. Ditto for the ACC tournament. Be consistent in getting a top 16 seed in the NCAA tournament and getting to the sweet sixteen, elite eight and or final four. Program has a high standard that HD has shown that he is incapable of meeting. Pretty obvious to me.
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Tarheelfan87

Feb 11, 4:25 PM

1stGenerationHeel said:
I would also argue the level of talent Roy had when he started here at UNC was light year's better than what he left Hubert (4 NBA players vs 1). Not that RJ and Bacot weren't relatively talented to their peers, but they weren't May, Felton, McCants level. So again I ask, if Hubert is canned and the talent level is where it was when Roy left what comparisons are going to be made? Does the new coach get compared to Hubert or compared to Dean and Roy?
Do you think the talent level here is good enough to beat California, Stanford, Miami, and SMU???

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