Big East COY

[NCAAsorBust]

Tell me when Holloway has around $10 million to compete with the upper half of the league, then we can evaluate him more objectively. In the meantime I’ll give credence to the judgement of the coaches in the league who actually do the voting. If he does win it, good for him and it’s good for SHU too.

So he has a job for life??? How many years no ncaa tournaments and then when he has 10 mil all the others will have 15, so then we won’t be able to evaluate him then too.

At seton hall whoever the coach is you can almost guarantee will be under funded. Here we need someone who can win under funded. the goal here is to make the tournament. At some point we have to make the tournament. Otherwise anyone here could coach the team for half a million, save the school money and still never achieve the goal.

 

[VegasPJ1]

Should Geno Auriemma get the women’s COY every single year?

Probably until some other BE coach is fortunate enough to bear them. ‍

 

[VegasPJ1]

I think we have to extend him, or at least make certain promises related to NIL, if his agent starts barking up that tree. Plus, apparently now if he wins this COY award we cannot bring up the fact that he hasn't been to the NCAA in his first 3 years and will only get there this year if we win the Big East, Ewing-style.

Wrong!!!

 

[The Crows Nest]

They were only picked last because of last season's record, which happened with a completely different roster (horrible) assembled by the same guy. There are only three players on this year's team that were on last year's team. One of them is a walk on. Another has played a grand total of four minutes the entire season. The third has only played 10 games and averages less than a point per game.

The coaches set their expectations based on last year's finish, which has nothing to do with this year. Completely different roster given the pay-for-play era we're in. Those expectations mean absolutely nothing.

The bottom line is the Big East COY is 0-4 in making NCAA Tournaments and hasn't won a Big East Tournament game entering this week. It's not a good resume. It's funny how most on here give him a total pass for last season's train wreck, yet praise him for this year's mediocre showing. Most coaches (at real, serious programs - which Seton Hall obviously isn't one) get canned after Year 3 if they don't produce. Around here, we throw around extensions and free passes, yet the guy still hasn't done a damn thing. Simply maddening for those of us with any kind of expectations. But I'm not blind to the fact that most Seton Hall fans, especially on this board, have little to no expectations for this program.

Ok. So based on this logic Gino wins Coach of the Year every year on the Women’s side.
Fair enough

 

[dehere23]

Ok. So based on this logic Gino wins Coach of the Year every year on the Women’s side.
Fair enough

I think the difference with the Uconn women and Geno is that they dominate the league in way no men's team has or will. He's obviously the best coach, but with a team that dominant year-in, year out, its really not pragmatic for him to win the COY award every season. Even with Uconn men's recent string of dominance, it doesn't approach the women.

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

Failing student managed to eke out a C. What an accomplishment…

 

[Piratz]

It’s all about the money in their perception. Sha did more with less and the program is recognized for the turnaround in their estimation. Plus he put scares into the top 2 teams 4x and had this roster that we all thought wouldn’t be good as one of the top units defensively.

I would’ve gone Willard, but I’ll be happy for the program if Sha wins it. Any recognition is good.

Now go win the BET.

 

[King of S]

Stop being picked dead last preseason!!!!!! You’re getting excited because we didn’t finish last. Hip hip hooray we didn’t finish last. It was impossible for 7 of the 11 teams to finish 7 spots higher. There is no 0th place

Disagree all you want, Sha is still winning Coach of the Year.

 

[BrklynGrad]

Comparing preseason KP ranking to their end of season rating, every team in the BE underperformed except for Villanova (+18 spots) and Seton Hall (+41 spots).

It's Seton Hall's biggest jump since 2016 when we were #82 preseason and finished #29 (+53 spots).

Team	Pre	Final	Difference
St. John's	16	21	-5
Uconn	5	11	-6
Villanova	50	32	18
Seton Hall	93	52	41
Creighton	41	75	-34
DePaul	78	102	-24
Providence	48	74	-26
Butler	72	83	-11
Marquette	47	85	-38
Georgetown	82	86	-4
Xavier	62	96	-34

Pre season rankings in the era of NIL are meaningless. No one touted that more than our coach.

 

[BrklynGrad]

Would be a nice recognition from his peers.

True. Also says much about how bad we were/he was last year.

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

Pre season rankings in the era of NIL are meaningless. No one touted that more than our coach.

Coaches were dumb and picked us last. And now based on his exceeding that bad prediction the very same coaches have voted him coach of the year...

 

[BrklynGrad]

Imo, neither SJ or Uconn are happy with their seasons. SJ not happy with the OOC. Uconn not happy finishing 2nd. Both expected better and underperformed.

Should Geno Auriemma get the women’s COY every single year?

Yes. In that conference, to give it to anyone else is embarrassing. I'd also say, most years all five UCONN starters should make first tea all-conference.

 

[SPK145]

Coaches were dumb and picked us last. And now based on his exceeding that bad prediction the very same coaches have voted him coach of the year...

Exactly plus he got it because he was so bad last year but why not still celebrate it?

And go beat Creighton, get off that Big East Tournament schneid.

 

[batts]

No one can ignore the correlation between NIL budgets and success. The greater your spending power in putting together a roster, the more success you will have. I'm sure that there are exceptions but the correlation holds true. St. John's, UConn and Nova all had more money to spend than SHU. Based on insider's knowledge, SHU was in the lower quadrant for P5 NIL budgets. If SHU is going to make the Tournament, it needs to in the least be in the mid-tier quadrant for NIL budgets. Sha definitely deserved COY given his NIL budget.

 

[SHUSource]

I think we have to extend him, or at least make certain promises related to NIL, if his agent starts barking up that tree. Plus, apparently now if he wins this COY award we cannot bring up the fact that he hasn't been to the NCAA in his first 3 years and will only get there this year if we win the Big East, Ewing-style.

We can certainly talk about that, but we have to include the full context that he is operating in a landscape that has him boxing with one arm tied behind his back. We can’t just say, “This guy hasn’t made the NCAAs yet,” as if it were a random four years for any other coach across the last forty years. It’s not the same and until he is properly resourced to pay for a contending roster, his charge is to make silk purses from sows’ ears. It ain’t easy, but he still finished fourth. I can see as well as you that the gap from first and second to fourth, or even third to fourth, was huge this year. But there are some pretty good coaches who also finished pretty far behind our team.

 

[radecicco]

So we couldn't evaluate him his first 2 years when NIL wasn't nearly as big of an issue, it seemed, in part because the kids couldn't transfer more than once?

Huh? He had two winning seasons his first two years. Five bid stealers doomed the NCAAT bid in year two. Unfortunate. Last year was a disaster but apparently Holloway learned something from that.

In the new landscape, the only way to fully understand the job a coache has done is to understand the financial resources they are working with. If a coach has a mid tier budget then he should finish at least middle of the league and possibly higher. Coaches with top tier budgets should finish top tier in the league. If they don’t then they’re open to criticism.

 

[Section112]

Good for Sha. I'll take it. Huge congrats to him after last year.

I hope that makes some parents and players rethink things if they were going to leave. I know the $ is the first, second and third thing on their priority list. But getting voted Coach of the Year by your peers (some unbelievable coaches) is pretty impressive and I hope this helps Sha retain some of our players and believe in him.

 

[donnie-baseball]

That would be nice and Sha's agent will probably use it in talks for another contract extension. I think Sha did a good job and overachieved with the talent that he had much more than any other team/coach. However I just have a tough time giving COTY to a coach who doesn't make the NCAAT when there are 3 other candidates who have a strong case and all beat us head to head twice.

Because it's an individual award, not a team award. Pitino and Hurley did what they were expected to do, with the talent and resources that they have. At the time of the award voting, Seton Hall had neither missed or made the tournament.

 

[radecicco]

So he has a job for life??? How many years no ncaa tournaments and then when he has 10 mil all the others will have 15, so then we won’t be able to evaluate him then too.

At seton hall whoever the coach is you can almost guarantee will be under funded. Here we need someone who can win under funded. the goal here is to make the tournament. At some point we have to make the tournament. Otherwise anyone here could coach the team for half a million, save the school money and still never achieve the goal.

Holloway has three winning seasons out of four. Last year was a disaster but apparently he has learned something from that. I certainly agree at some point you have to make the NCAAT.

 

[donnie-baseball]

Ridiculous that anyone who has a brain would say that he doesn’t deserve a vote

Res ipsa loquitor.

 

[Seton75]

In a nutshell, if the Dodgers win 98 games and the team picked last in the NL WINS 84, I am voting for their coach for COY.

 

[donnie-baseball]

It’s all about the money in their perception. Sha did more with less and the program is recognized for the turnaround in their estimation. Plus he put scares into the top 2 teams 4x and had this roster that we all thought wouldn’t be good as one of the top units defensively.

I would’ve gone Willard, but I’ll be happy for the program if Sha wins it. Any recognition is good.

Now go win the BET.

And it is. The top 3 teams were almost certainly the top three best funded.

 

[HallX2]

Holloway has three winning seasons out of four. Last year was a disaster but apparently he has learned something from that. I certainly agree at some point you have to make the NCAAT.

Agree. He was handicapped by the low NIL available last year and the somewhat late commitment to NIL this year. But no more grading on the curve after this year.
I do view the season as a success. Will be even more so if we at least win one game in the BET.

 

[Halldan]

And it is. The top 3 teams were almost certainly the top three best funded.

The top two, no question.

But Providence was third with Nova slightly behind in the next group.

 

[cernjSHU]

Coaches were dumb and picked us last. And now based on his exceeding that bad prediction the very same coaches have voted him coach of the year...

What were the great players on this Seton Hall team? Budd Clark. That’s about it. Every other player on the team had average talent. Hines will develop into a great player but he’s not there yet. There is no other starter that would start on the top half of the Big East teams. Clark is certainly not starting in the top three teams.

Preseason ranking or not, Holloway got the most out of this team. They played their guts out for him and as a team they were much better than the sum of its parts. That’s why Holloway won this award.

 

[SPK145]

What were the great players on this Seton Hall team? Budd Clark. That’s about it. Every other player on the team had average talent.

Well that would explain how they finshed exactly average at 10-10.

 

[dehere23]

Huh? He had two winning seasons his first two years. Five bid stealers doomed the NCAAT bid in year two. Unfortunate. Last year was a disaster but apparently Holloway learned something from that.

In the new landscape, the only way to fully understand the job a coache has done is to understand the financial resources they are working with. If a coach has a mid tier budget then he should finish at least middle of the league and possibly higher. Coaches with top tier budgets should finish top tier in the league. If they don’t then they’re open to criticism.

And we didn't make the NCAA either season after living there previously for a while. That's reality. Again, I don't state that to knock Sha or say he isn't a good coach. But the other side of that coin is how many others would have done better with those teams, and how that plays into the evaluation. The nuance that gets lost here is that one can like Sha and think he did a good job this year while at the same time recognizing where he falls in the "pyramid" of coaches out there, both within and outside the Big East.

 

[joeyklings]

Why is this so hard for fans to understand?

Sha did a GOOD job with this group. However, he couldn’t get any worse than last year. He missed on every single player in the portal last year. He certainly wasn’t going to do that again this year. Obviously we were going to improve!

He swept the 7th - 11th ranked teams w the exception of Butler and beat ONE team in the top 6, finishing with a record of 1-9!!!! That is not COY material. It’s just not. Again, he did a good job. He did not do a GREAT job.

My vote would be for Pitino. But how in the hell can you vote for Sha over Willard?? 15-5 in year 1, swept Seton hall, and finished third with a freshman pg and average roster.

 

[PhishingPirate088]

I would assume this gets Sha some more cash and prestige good for him

 

[radecicco]

If he gets the COY, thank goodness it was the BE coaches who voted for him and not the some if the posters on this board.

 

[Bluebeard]

Pre season polls are not based on last year. It was based on the team he had in October. Outside of Hines, No superstar transfers.

 

[Gritty5837]

So we couldn't evaluate him his first 2 years when NIL wasn't nearly as big of an issue, it seemed, in part because the kids couldn't transfer more than once?

His offenses have been mediocre going back to St. Peter's. There's enough sample size to say he is not a good offensive coach (at this point).

 

[Hall84]

Coaches were dumb and picked us last. And now based on his exceeding that bad prediction the very same coaches have voted him coach of the year...

The coaches and every basketball publication which took into consideration how they valued the portal acquisitions.

 

[HALL85]

Being horribly bad last year should not give a complete pass for this year’s results. Sha deserve to be in the conversation with the other three coaches.

And I’m sure there is an appreciation for the turnaround and playing catch-up on NIL. Finishing forth with an undersized point card and a bunch of pieces and parts that wouldn’t start on the Majority of Big East teams is a big accomplishment.

Maybe the coaches have a little bit more appreciation in terms of what he accomplished with the challenges. 10 brand new rotational players. Sha is the only minority amongst the 100 and four coaches which may have factored a tad.

 

[radecicco]

Being horribly bad last year should not give a complete pass for this year’s results. Sha deserve to be in the conversation with the other three coaches.

And I’m sure there is an appreciation for the turnaround and playing catch-up on NIL. Finishing forth with an undersized point card and a bunch of pieces and parts that wouldn’t start on the Majority of Big East teams is a big accomplishment.

Maybe the coaches have a little bit more appreciation in terms of what he accomplished with the challenges. 10 brand new rotational players. Sha is the only minority amongst the 100 and four coaches which may have factored a tad.

Agree with you but miss the point of your last sentence.

 

[HALL85]

Agree with you but miss the point of your last sentence.

The point is rather obvious and shouldn’t require explanation in this day and age. It’s an extremely minor consideration but it doesn’t hurt the image of the league if Sha wins COY.

 

[papacheesy2]

Sorry but I don't see Sha trying to leverage this award to get more money. Can't have one good season after going 2--18 and immediately start hitting up your boss for bonuses. Doesn't feel like him.

Stack one more good year though and then, yeah.

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

Sorry but I don't see Sha trying to leverage this award to get more money. Can't have one good season after going 2--18 and immediately start hitting up your boss for bonuses. Doesn't feel like him.

Stack one more good year though and then, yeah.

Isn’t this the guy that said no hometown discounts? And who also extracted a better deal when Louisville was supposedly calling?

Not saying he was wrong to do either of those things, to be clear. But don’t know that I’d say that this “[d]oesn’t feel like him.”

 

[TheHall87]

I actually went back and looked at this historically to see the records of every team for COY winners. PJ won it with a .500 record in 87-88 (which I didn't remember). John MacLeod, of all people, won it with a losing record in 96-97 (8-10). Leonard Hamilton won it as well at 9-9 with Miami in 94-95.

Those of us old enough to remember might recall P.J.'s 1988 COY was something of a message from his colleagues to the school. He was coaching on an expiring contract in year six and had finally finished above .500 overall in year five.

That team started 2-6 in BE play but finished strong and won a BET game as well as an NCAA game.

The thought was it would be more difficult to move on from the BE COY though in reality he was likely going nowhere.

Should Geno Auriemma get the women’s COY every single year?

He's won 14 of them in 33 BE seasons, including the last three years. He also won the AAC award six of the seven years UConn was in the league.

So every other year.

 

[HallX2]

You could argue that almost every SHU coach who achieves a winning season deserves COY in their sport given the resources our beloved Sisters of the Poor makes available.