Where are the resources coming from? This isn't a socialism type scheme where we can just print money for him to be equal to everyone else. It has to come from somewhere. Whether it's Holloway, Willard, Gonzo, Orr, they've all been underfunded compared to the competition. We never had the resources to compete with Boeheim and Syracuse or Calhoun and UConn but Orr found a way twice. Willard found a way to be competitive with Nova throughout his time here without having Jay Wrights money guys. The money isn't falling out of the sky into SHU's pocket. If you want to be in the big east the goal has to be the NCAA tournament. Every program has a different set of resources. Every coach has to play the cards their dealt. And bunch of them F'd it up this year. We didn't. But we still have no chance at an at large bid because we have 1 win against a team above our weight and that was before Thanksgiving.
Big East COY
- Thread starter Halldan
- Start date
Yes regardless of NIL. Our NIL is 8th or 9th in the big east. Why did 2-3 teams with worse NIL put together better rosters according to coaches in the preseason. Set the bar high for next year. If you can tell me it's ok for Seton Hall to have the perception of worst roster again next season, the bar is so low the average 2 year old at the local playground can jump over it.
And yet people are content with the idea that we were picked last with the 7th best NIL. 4 teams with lower NIL's picked ahead of us.
So called fans like you love to criticize but never offer any real solutions. If you think Shaheen has not done a good job, who do you want to replace him? What coach is going to leave a successful program to go to a school with a lower tier NIL budget? Please offer your solution.
Ignoring the impact of NIL is pure folly. Since pay-for-play has been sanctioned by the Supreme Court, the monies paid to players have skyrocketed each year making it very difficult for smaller schools to keep pace with the P5 Football schools. St. John's does it with a billionaire, and Nova and UConn do it with more big money donors. What is your fix to this problem?
Perhaps you don’t remember those embarrassing blow out losses where the team just flat out quit in the game. I remember those games. The one thing that is very important to me is that this team did not quit on Sha. His players will go through a wall for him and always had the guts to make a run at a team. O matter how much they were losing.
that quality alone is worth keeping. Players play for Shaheen. In this day for play to pay, that’s a damn admirable trait.
No solutions, So I'll go with learning to just be content being picked last every year and when we overachieve last I will throw a party.
You admit there is a problem. The biggest problem is your looking for an answer on a message board and not someone in the administration who can actually make a change.
Since you cannot name a replacement coach, Shaheen is not the problem. Lack of an upper tier level NIL budget is the problem. Agree?
I do not follow 360+ teams, but I do bet someone who does can probably name a few. You talk like no mid major coach is going to rise to become a star somewhere.
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You make it out like a hot mid major coach would want to come to Seton Hall. You think Josh Shertz would come to Seton hall? Please.
Seton Hall
Orr became the first former Big East player to become a head coach in the conference after he was hired in 2001 by Seton Hall after Tommy Amaker left to become the head coach at Michigan. In his first year in the Big East Conference, Orr went 12–18, but was noted for playing Duke very close in the Maui Invitational.By his fifth season at Seton Hall, Orr had led the Pirates to two NCAA Tournaments in three years. In the 2004 NCAA tournament, Seton Hall defeated the 9th seed Arizona in the first round before falling to 1st seed Duke in the second round. During the 2005–06 season, Orr led Seton Hall to a 9–7 record in the Big East and an 18–12 record overall. Seton Hall was seeded 10th in the 2006 NCAA tournament and played the 7th seed Wichita State, falling 86–66. Although Orr had made the NCAA tournament twice and the NIT once in his five seasons at Seton Hall, concerns about lackluster recruiting resulted in his firing after the 2005–06 season with a record of 80–69.
I don't believe most of the stuff I hear (or read) about NIL, because the "market" is so full of disinformation. But I've heard essentially the order you listed above except that Uconn was 1 and SJU was 2 (hence Silas Demary). For this year only of course. This coming from the folks who told me Hines was coming last March, but again it could be BS to varying degrees. At the time I didn't find it believable (this was months ago) because I couldn't believe Marquette wasn't higher on the list.
Marquette didn't need more to keep what they had but they can get a ton more if they want/need it.
OK so like they played a well regarded duke team at Cameron 1st week of season and got smoked then also played uconn later in the season that had a disappointing March outcome and also got trounced.
Wichita State was a better team in the ncaa game.
That team also beat Syracuse away, NC State away and basically won an elimination game at Pitt the last regular season game.
First year the roster overall was not that good. Front court was thin on depth. Played a close game at Michiga State right before Christmas.
Last win of season was Feb 9 lost 7 straight to close out year.
2nd year OOC did them in for not getting a bid. Lost to Texas neutral site, Louisville home away Ohio State and DePaul and late Jan home against Gonzo Manhattan. They lost at PC in overtime in the regular season finale which probably kept them solidified outside looking in.
Year after Barrett departed was objectively a terrible season nothing to sugar coat.
Man I really question your hoops knowledge. All those guys did not have to deal with annual free agency and unlimited $$$ being paid to players. You had players for three or four years and could recruit to your style and develop them. Geez give it a rest.
Interesting. Well the brinks trunk is going to be "backed up" for Nigel James alone.
I am not proposing we changed coaches, but if they did I would think they should look to follow the trend of reclamation coaches (see Butler, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier). Not saying Chris Mack, but a guy like Chris Mack.
LOL like we have the best coach in the country. I do believe he needs 2 more years, but if he doesn't get it done, you talk like if he can't do it nobody can so we should just keep paying 3 mil a year forever. 4 years no bids, we're going backwards.
Seton Hall is playing the same game everyone else in the country has to play and deal with. We've always been behind since Amaker left. It's why Gonzo couldn't land Tyreke Evans, it's why Willard couldn't land Kyle Anderson. We lost out to better funded teams. They were just funded differently but they were funded much higher than seton hall.
The great equtilizer was the sit out rule. But since you don’t understand that what’s the point of debating with you. Like I said, stop digging.
I've said a few times the transfer rule would fix the chaos of college sports BUT we're all playing by the same rules.
Agreed. What has changed is indeed the Big East - it's much weaker now and should be easier to succeed.
The biggest thing that has changed is Seton Hall's standards. My, how they have fallen.
Blaney: 3 years, 0 NCAA's. Fired.
Orr: 5 years, 2 NCAA's. Fired.
Gonzalez: 4 years, 0 NCAA's. Fired.
Seton Hall used to have standards, and that was in a much tougher world to compete. Willard actually raised the bar higher, with 5 (6) NCAA's in 11 (12) seasons. Now we sing the praises of someone who is far more similar to the group of three listed above. It's a bizarre world at Seton Hall these days.
Congrats to Sha on his first Big East Tournament win. It only took him four full years! Baby steps....
willard did worse than all 3 of those guys you mentioned and then succeeded a few years after. don't you think that changed the thought process a little?
unanimous COY. you must be fuming in your apartment right now. your 9/11. god forbid we make the tournament!
Programmatic details, like blowing a post-game alumni reception after a loss to Northwestern in Chicago affected Orr’s status.
But hey, let’s take ANOTHER shot at Holloway.
Willard raised the bar, now Seton Hall has inexplicably lowered the bar for this guy immediately following him. Willard is the #2 or #3 best coach in Seton Hall history, take your pick. Certainly #2 when considering only the Big East era.
I'm well aware of why Louis Orr was fired, and I did want them to move on from him when they did. The mistake was hiring that idiot Gonzalez.
Where did I do that? Stating that his accomplishments to date are more similar to the 3 coaches who got fired is a factual statement, not a shot.
you obviousy don't like Sha..... I get it. Just relax and enjoy some success. The ANONYMOUS selection for COY by his peers says a lot about the respect Sha gets outside the bubble that is this message board.
Firing Orr was a ridiculous basketball decision.
Hiring blaney or bg was ten times more stupid.
And if not for the off court issues, doubt if bg got fired.
You pegged Sha at 0-4 in BET last night counting on a loss today. Probably kills you that they won today.
When your talking point is a win against a 15-17 team, the program is in bad shape.