GYERO
- Thread starter AndyPolleydotcom
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Almost 0% chance Pope makes it without being able to sign elite recruits mixed in with the right blend of portal players. Was told this staff has great recruiters. Either he/they suck as recruiters or something smells with the JMI deal.
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We just signed 2 McDonalds AA.
I don’t ever want to be so dependent on FR again that upperclassmen abuse them like we saw the last 4 years.
Also it’s not like any of these kids are loyal anyway so what does it matter if we land top FR or not?
Which top FR from last year will be in the F4 this year?
I don’t ever want to be so dependent on FR again that upperclassmen abuse them like we saw the last 4 years.
Also it’s not like any of these kids are loyal anyway so what does it matter if we land top FR or not?
Which top FR from last year will be in the F4 this year?
So you are cool with other teams cast-offs,6th/7th men and dudes like Williams that played against bad teams and inflated his worth?
You have to bring in guys that will be around to learn both the system and what the program really means. Sprinkle in an elite freshman and veteran transfer or two.
Another thing, I’m to the point that I get irrationally irritated when these kids talk about how they understand how the fans feel and how important it is to BBN and how they travel etc. They are just repeating what they have been told to say, it comes off as disingenuous to me.
We signed 1 McDonald's AA, Moreno. We also missed out on the best targets in that class, a class that is looking like one of the best draft classes in years. There's a very good chance a few of those guys will contribute to a final four run. Now it's looking like we might strike out again. You don't want to count on freshman but you do need some of the elite to mix in.
The JMI deal didn't start until this school year so this year's team has no ties to JMI. It's all future recruiting classes.
This never would’ve happened if we had relied on JTM for our NTI needs.
- In the portal yes I’m ok with guys like Williams, Garrison because we have them multiply years and they grow within our system, and to me it’s no different than a FR looking great because they beat up on bad HS competition. Only FR typically don’t have the strength to compete with JR/SR which was our problem under Cal only as fans we just thought it was all Cal when a kid struggled but then became good/great as a Soph/JR like Washington or Richard’s.
- Also this past class? Again name 1 that is a for sure F4 appearance? Maybe Duke if they don’t choke?
- We are 1/4th of the way through Popes second year and fans are so sensitive after years of Cal’s BS that Pope is the new target. Not saying he will right this ship but he is a good coach and will succeed here. Worrying about things we can’t control just for the sake of complaining is truly amazing to see. I did it too as a 20 YO but in my 40’s?
Turbo false.
I’ll hope for the best and know as long as intelligent people are in the right places it will work. Pope nor his assistants are terrible or lazy so yes they will figure this out.
- Along those same lines kids are kids and they’ll make bad decisions. Can’t stop that especially now that so much money is in play. It’s not about just recruiting once anyway and yes all those kids we “missed” on will be FA’s again next year and the year after too.
- Also this past class? Again name 1 that is a for sure F4 appearance? Maybe Duke if they don’t choke?
- We are 1/4th of the way through Popes second year and fans are so sensitive after years of Cal’s BS that Pope is the new target. Not saying he will right this ship but he is a good coach and will succeed here. Worrying about things we can’t control just for the sake of complaining is truly amazing to see. I did it too as a 20 YO but in my 40’s?
Turbo false.
I’ll hope for the best and know as long as intelligent people are in the right places it will work. Pope nor his assistants are terrible or lazy so yes they will figure this out.
- Along those same lines kids are kids and they’ll make bad decisions. Can’t stop that especially now that so much money is in play. It’s not about just recruiting once anyway and yes all those kids we “missed” on will be FA’s again next year and the year after too.
no one is a lock for a final four, krazy. But if I were a betting man I would bet at least one of BYU, Louisville, Houston, Arizona, Arkansas, UNC, Duke, make a final four. Also I’m sure I’m forgetting a superstar freshman or two because I’m nearly checked out for the year
Arizona
Michigan
Duke
UConn
Houston
BYU
Louisville
Are all in the mythical Week 6 AP top 12 and have at least 1 freshman as a major contributor. You literally couldn't have picked a worse year to make this argument.
Edit: That was just off the top of my head, Iowa St, Gonzaga, and Alabama also all have a freshman in their top 5 scoring. Literally the only team that doesn't is Purdue.
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Noted to follow. I guess I should have said top 5 FR but oh well.
We’ll see how this plays out. I bet any of those teams that are truly reliant on said FR to lead them will not make it.
Edit: This also gives me Iowa St, Gonzaga, Mich St and Alabama as most likely teams to make vs that list, I’ll take my chances with that.
We’ll see how this plays out. I bet any of those teams that are truly reliant on said FR to lead them will not make it.
Edit: This also gives me Iowa St, Gonzaga, Mich St and Alabama as most likely teams to make vs that list, I’ll take my chances with that.
Ideally we would get a modern version what we thought we were getting when Cal first got here -- a stable nucleus of guys who come and develop as a veteran nucleus to which we add extraordinary talent every year, whether that comes from the transfer portal or superstar freshmen.
We literally said you don't want to count on them but mixing them in on a good team of returnees and transfer portal guys would have been helpful. It's not that difficult to understand...but yes having Dybantsa, Boozer, or Brown Jr. would definitely have hurt our chances of making a final four.
We need top freshman that are NBA players the next year as part of the team’s composition. That is in addition to portal players that fit specific roles. The top high school kids are the talent we lack. And it’s important for branding. Other kids want to play where the big names went. None of them are looking to go where Oweh is your best player. We’re stacked with bench players in starter’s roles right now. It’s not sexy.
Yes telling 18YO money hungry children we’d like to blend you in to sit behind upperclassmen is a great sales pitch.
There is a reality to FR recruiting that UK fans don’t get for some reason.
With Wilkerson specifically, we didn't get outbid but they hired a family member to their staff that we weren't willing to do which was the difference.
I think it's a combination of the hurdles JMI is creating and the minutes restriction he has guys on.
JMI has created issues or we already would've landed Collins for next year.
I think the minutes thing hurt us with Caleb Wilson, Yaxel, Dent, etc. and will hurt us with Stokes unless he changes that up for the rest of the year.
This is the crux of the issue and it’s important to note that UK’s Executive Associate AD is married to the VP of Partnerships at JMI.
So you think any of those guys would have sat behind the guys we have now?
I've fully checked out on this season because I just don't have the bandwidth. But the JMI deal might fully break my spirit. What a corrupt, stupid move. That kind of exclusivity/monopoly benefits no one except the two parties to the deal, and then only temporarily. Any deal like that is pure *** for the consumer.
And just like every stupid contract move by Mitch, he makes sure that albatross around our necks is a generational yolk of malfeasance.
Deleted. I'm actually tired of reading my own posts about this.
Agree, Kook.
Agree, Kook.
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Full article here: https://www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-...tucky-basketball-relationship-jmi-recruiting/
“You’re telling me nobody knows, but we have other schools telling us hard numbers from their rev share and marketing, those types of agreements on the back end,” the source said. “I think they kind of knew what their number was, but they tried to save all their money, banking on getting Tyran [Stokes]. It pushed a lot of the other recruits away. You’re acting with us like you don’t know a number, but then other schools are telling us a number. You’re saying this space is so unknown, but how is it unknown when you have 10 other schools telling you a number, and one other school not telling you a number?”
“Kentucky tries to cover as many categories as possible when in negotiations for that money,” one agent with direct dealings with UK told KSR. “It’s like a marketing guarantee where they pay an up-front fee, whatever it is, and they try to use the player’s name, image, and likeness to recoup that money through endorsements and company sponsors.”
[...]
In the trenches of these back-and-forths, sources said Pope would take offense to revised demands or competing schools upping their offers, struggling to grasp how big-time recruitments unfold in today’s world.
“[He’d say,] ‘This is Kentucky. We’re not getting in a bidding war.’ And I’m like, ‘Okay, well then that’s your risk if you want to lose him,’” one source said. “… I don’t think he knows how to play in that sandbox yet. I don’t think he knows how to play in this game yet. … Pope has never done this type of business before getting here. He didn’t have to deal with superstars at BYU. He’s getting used to it.”
“You’re telling me nobody knows, but we have other schools telling us hard numbers from their rev share and marketing, those types of agreements on the back end,” the source said. “I think they kind of knew what their number was, but they tried to save all their money, banking on getting Tyran [Stokes]. It pushed a lot of the other recruits away. You’re acting with us like you don’t know a number, but then other schools are telling us a number. You’re saying this space is so unknown, but how is it unknown when you have 10 other schools telling you a number, and one other school not telling you a number?”
“Kentucky tries to cover as many categories as possible when in negotiations for that money,” one agent with direct dealings with UK told KSR. “It’s like a marketing guarantee where they pay an up-front fee, whatever it is, and they try to use the player’s name, image, and likeness to recoup that money through endorsements and company sponsors.”
[...]
In the trenches of these back-and-forths, sources said Pope would take offense to revised demands or competing schools upping their offers, struggling to grasp how big-time recruitments unfold in today’s world.
“[He’d say,] ‘This is Kentucky. We’re not getting in a bidding war.’ And I’m like, ‘Okay, well then that’s your risk if you want to lose him,’” one source said. “… I don’t think he knows how to play in that sandbox yet. I don’t think he knows how to play in this game yet. … Pope has never done this type of business before getting here. He didn’t have to deal with superstars at BYU. He’s getting used to it.”
Strategically speaking only Duke signed 2 Top 15 players and they had nothing returning. So is UK supposed to match every school for every player?
IIRC we were in on Ament and Caleb Wilson and lost on both. We really weren’t considered by the rest and mainly because we spread minutes and those players want not only top dollar but top minutes.
Pope has to accept a change there somehow, but that said yes I’d have preferred not to sign many of those FR that would have blocked the upperclassmen portal guys.
The problem is honestly we didn’t land our top 1-2 choices at each position and truthfully speaking the biggest issue we have is Ament, Caleb and Yaxel all passed when that’s the position we truly can’t figure out.
IMO some will say PG too, but I think Lowe can handle that. I do not think we have a real fix at PF(or the 4) that really fixes us.
This program desperately needs two things to happen in the next 6 months, a competent search for a forward thinking AD when Barnhart leaves and to hire Tayshaun for basketball GM. Let him work out these NIL issues and leave Pope to producing results on the court.
Having Hart and Fueger actually land some big names along the way would help.
Having Hart and Fueger actually land some big names along the way would help.
From the new Jack Pilgrim / Jacob Polachek article on JMI / Kentucky's recruiting woes: In talking to sources, JMI, in conjunction with the UK basketball staff, is requiring prospective student-athletes to sign away NIL rights that would normally be untouched at any other school.
Wait til people realize the person who got canned at Lexington Sporting Club for the marketing mess that was…now runs UK’s NIL for JMI. Have fun!!!
Completely irresponsible to sign a 15 year deal. I get more infuriated at Barnhart as each day passes. Get this clown out of here now!
