Last year / Former Players

[Halldan]

It's not that simple Pat. He wanted out. He was not coming back thus his ridiculous ask.

And no, I doubt any of the swings we have are better than Coleman, with the possible exception of Fisher. Who is far taller and much more athletic. But at this point Coleman is the better player.

But Fisher didn't cost $1.5M so if you ask me who would I want given SHU's budget, Coleman at $1.5M or Fisher at about 1/3 of the price, I would want Fisher.

 

[PirateBlue08]

In the case of Coleman...no one is saying he's not talented. But there are many, many 6-3 guards in his category, and thus their price is lower.

And the reason I say he's 6-3 instead of his listed 6-5 at Seton Hall was because when he was arrested this summer his mug shot listed him at 6-3.

Did we get any of them? From a purely basketball ability standpoint are any of the guards we picked up even in the same class as Coleman? FYI I'm not a Coleman apologist in any way, and getting arrested for DUI, wow I'm not a fan of that move. One of the most careless things you can do to endanger your life and most of all the lives of others. But the law notwithstanding, I'm just not convinced a major conference guard averaging 16 isn't a million dollar player.

If he didn't want to be here then goodbye (I wouldn't either after last season) but I'm just disputing the idea that a high major guard of his caliber isn't a million dollar player in todays wacky world of NIL. Supply and demand says he absolutely is.

 

[Seton75]

Guess I am all alone on this one.

wgas

 

[NittanyPirate]

Coleman did not and does not want to be a Pirate. That was shared several times over the last 2 years.
It’s like listening to a Colts fan whine about letting Elway leave for Denver.

 

[shupat08]

I understand Dan that he did not want to be at Seton Hall anymore. I think what so many posters are having an issue with. Is you saying it is ridiculous for a starter quality to guard to ask for $1.5 million when he got 1.2.

Based on this market, 1.5 million is not ridiculous for a starter quality in a major conference who will average about 15 points and let's say over five rebounds a game. And if you think that is a ridiculous ask then you don't understand the market correctly or you are using blue colored glasses to judge his ask.

 

[Halldan]

But the law notwithstanding, I'm just not convinced a major conference guard averaging 16 isn't a million dollar player.

He averaged less than 16 PPG on 38.9%. Look at the entire stats not just PPG. And he didn't ask for $1M he asked for $1.5M.

 

[Halldan]

I understand Dan that he did not want to be at Seton Hall anymore. I think what so many posters are having an issue with. Is you saying it is ridiculous for a starter quality to guard to ask for $1.5 million when he got 1.2.

Based on this market, 1.5 million is not ridiculous for a starter quality in a major conference who will average about 15 points and let's say over five rebounds a game. And if you think that is a ridiculous ask then you don't understand the market correctly or you are using blue colored glasses to judge his ask.

He got $1.1M from a FB school whose NIL at the time dwarfed ours. And yes a good 6-3 guard is nowhere near worth $1.5M anywhere. Don't mix positions regarding NIL. Big men and PGs get major bucks. Good 2Gs do not.

 

[shupat08]

He got $1.1M from a FB school whose NIL at the time dwarfed ours. And yes a good 6-3 guard is nowhere near worth $1.5M anywhere. Don't mix positions regarding NIL. Big men and PGs get major bucks. Good 2Gs do not.

Okay

 

[radecicco]

I agree with Dan on Coleman. He is 100% correct. Guys at that height are a dime a dozen. Just look at the 2 games we played and the talent on the other teams. There were kids (some Div2 and JUCO) that could easily replace Coleman for a hell of lot less money. In fact some of the kids I just saw were better!

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[radecicco]

Height matters in the sense of availability. The two most expensive positions in college BB are bigs (C-PF) and points. In the case of the bigs, that's obvious. Size matters. In the case of points, size doesn't matter as much. Ability is the key.

In the case of Coleman...no one is saying he's not talented. But there are many, many 6-3 guards in his category, and thus their price is lower.

And the reason I say he's 6-3 instead of his listed 6-5 at Seton Hall was because when he was arrested this summer his mug shot listed him at 6-3.

If there are so many better 6’3” guards than Coleman, why didn’t we get one?

 

[PirateBlue08]

I wonder how much Abdi Bashir got. Absolutely torched us. I'd have taken him over Coleman if there was a choice, but pretty sure he also was commanding a hefty sum.

 

[Bud Boomer]

Okay

You’re on the money with this one.

 

[Bud Boomer]

If there are so many better 6’3” guards than Coleman, why didn’t we get one?

The answer here is self-evident. To think we laughed off an offer than was 25% higher than what the player received is scary. Reminds me of Tyrese.

And if scoring wings are so undervalued, we should be loading up on them. Of course, we aren’t doing that either.

 

[Halldan]

If there are so many better 6’3” guards than Coleman, why didn’t we get one?

Don't sell Simpkins short. He might not be Coleman good, but down the road he could replace his output at a lot cheaper rate.

And yes I believe as good as Coleman projects to be there are a lot more quality 2Gs available than bigs and PGs. But we had to wait for the court ruling before we were going to spend our allotment of NIL money. By the time that happened most of them were taken.

 

[Halldan]

Bottom line, all of us, including myself, are pssing in the wind. He wasn't staying here anyway and his ask, knowing the Hall did not have that kind of money for him made that obvious.

 

[radecicco]

Agree on Simpkins. So far he’s the one wing who stands out for me.

 

[Halldan]

I think that Fisher will stand out as well. But with this roster he's playing out of position at the 4.

 

[Anon1756175571]

so..
Clark
simpkins
AJSM
Fisher
Payne/Hines

 

[Halldan]

Seems that way but AJ has to start to play better. And for now I would go with Payne.

 

[Fishjam]

Don't sell Simpkins short. He might not be Coleman good, but down the road he could replace his output at a lot cheaper rate.

And yes I believe as good as Coleman projects to be there are a lot more quality 2Gs available than bigs and PGs. But we had to wait for the court ruling before we were going to spend our allotment of NIL money. By the time that happened most of them were taken.

No question that Bigs get the most in the market. But surefire P5 starters at all positions get paid around 7 figures.

What bothers me about the Coleman situation is:

1 - Optics of losing best player every year

2 - Sha's infamous negotiation skills of laughing in our player's face.

3 - Need a GM that can keep his feelings and anger out of the negotiation process.

4 - That we again badly misread the market as a whole

5 - Our ridiculous strategy of spreading our salary budget on 13 small and mid-major players rather than pay going rate for a couple of strong P5
players to build around.

6 - Losing Coleman wasn't a dagger but failing to get someone else who can score 15+ a night in the BE was.

 

[Fishjam]

BTW, I like Simpkins. Think he has a lot of promise. But it's not an either/or situation. Would like Coleman AND Simpkins.

 

[jklings99]

@Halldan I don’t want to harp on this but you didn’t want to pay a 6’3 2 guard, what did our 5’8 PG get in NIL????

 

[shu67]

He shot 29% from 3 point last year and for a 6'3" 2 guard that is completely unacceptable and never ever worth a ton of NIL money! Finding 2 guards who can shoot above 30% from 3 pointers is easy!

 

[hallwins]

Team chemistry means something.
I think blowing up last year's roster was a good move. We kept Godswill who said from day one in the locker room after the last game, I am not leaving. A guy that wanted to be here.

I liked the way the team responded to a sub-par Wagner game. I think we have a bunch of no drama players on this squad who have a ton of experience.

We upgraded every position in terms of anticipated play and depth.

Coleman on this squad would have been nice, but I think we have a number of guys that can replace that production in the aggregate with much more efficiency.

 

[HALL85]

It’s pretty obvious Coleman didn’t want to come back so perhaps he threw out the $1.5 knowing Sha would show him the door, but in the unlikely event he agreed to pony up, you don’t think Coleman would either use it as more leverage with another team and/or come back with even a more ridiculous request?

And maybe Coleman was part of the chemistry problem last year as well.

Move on.

 

[hallwins]

It’s pretty obvious Coleman didn’t want to come back so perhaps he threw out the $1.5 knowing Sha would show him the door, but in the unlikely event he agreed to pony up, you don’t think Coleman would either use it as more leverage with another team and/or come back with even a more ridiculous request?

And maybe Coleman was part of the chemistry problem last year as well.

Move on.

I was at an away game last year sitting in front of Coleman's friends and family. Hearing their comments and after having a few conversations with some of the group, it was clear to me Coleman was gone. And thst was before the long, miserable conference season had really kicked in.

 

[Halldan]

Samuel didn't want to leave
Richmond didn't want to leave
Davis didn't want to leave

But they all got offers we couldn't match.

Coleman wanted to leave for a very long time. By midseason he was hunting on offense and playing no defense. Not sure why so many wanted him back.

I understand the optics of losing the above players. And in 3 of the 4 cases I agree. But not last year.

Moving forward we are in far better NIL shape. But still no more than mid Big East.

 

[Bud Boomer]

It’s fine that Coleman left, particularly if he didn’t want to be here.

The problem is the consistent misreading of the market and laughing off legitimate asks from players. That has to stop. There will be players on this year’s team that we want to keep. We can’t laugh at them when their agents ask for a lot of money or we will be watching a team of 13 strangers (again) next season.

 

[jklings99]

There were no chemistry problems last year.

we just sucked badly.

 

[hallwins]

There were no chemistry problems last year.

we just sucked badly.

2 things can be true.

 

[PirateBlue08]

Halldan, I agree with your point on Simpkins. But if he averages 15ppg this year, what will he be asking for next season?

 

[PirateBlue08]

2 things can be true.

It's also true that sucking CAUSES "chemistry problems" that wouldn't be there otherwise

 

[Halldan]

There were no chemistry problems last year.

we just sucked badly.

The heck there wasn't. Major issues with that squad.

 

[Halldan]

It's also true that sucking CAUSES "chemistry problems" that wouldn't be there otherwise

The issues began in the preseason. The players were never close. I'll leave it at that.

 

[hallwins]

Halldan, I agree with your point on Simpkins. But if he averages 15ppg this year, what will he be asking for next season?

That will be a good problem to have.

 

[PirateBlue08]

That will be a good problem to have.

As long as Sha doesn't laugh in his face.

 

[PirateBlue08]

The issues began in the preseason. The players were never close. I'll leave it at that.

I'll take your word for it. Hopefully none of those issues this year.

 

[chickenbox]

Is Chaunce Jenkins playing anywhere?

 

[papacheesy2]

@Halldan I don’t want to harp on this but you didn’t want to pay a 6’3 2 guard, what did our 5’8 PG get in NIL????

Who know if it's true but the number I saw speculated on Discord a while back was 700k

 

[NittanyPirate]

No question that Bigs get the most in the market. But surefire P5 starters at all positions get paid around 7 figures.

What bothers me about the Coleman situation is:

1 - Optics of losing best player every year

2 - Sha's infamous negotiation skills of laughing in our player's face.

3 - Need a GM that can keep his feelings and anger out of the negotiation process.

4 - That we again badly misread the market as a whole

5 - Our ridiculous strategy of spreading our salary budget on 13 small and mid-major players rather than pay going rate for a couple of strong P5
players to build around.

6 - Losing Coleman wasn't a dagger but failing to get someone else who can score 15+ a night in the BE was.

They would bother you a lot less if you accepted the fact that said player didn’t want to be a pirate.