Playing Hines and Payne Together

Wolf11642

Freshman
Apr 23, 2023
61
53
18
How feasible does the board think this would be?

Especially against a team like Marquette or Creighton this upcoming Sunday with questionable bigs - could we tandem the two and play old school bully ball with Hines at the high post?
 
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Piratz

All-Conference
Mar 24, 2004
1,308
2,566
113
Doesn’t look feasible at all to me. I don’t see either of them nimble enough to chase around 4’s and then we drain them together instead of always having one in.

Fisher has been pretty good for us this year at the PF/4 and Rivera has surprised me in playing well as a backup there. Dar has the best physical attributes for the position but is nowhere near ready.
 

Hall84

Senior
May 23, 2023
331
450
63
We were told before the season that Godswill Payne and Hines were strictly centers. I agree with that assessment 100%.
We’re gonna have enough trouble chasing Creighton’s center out on the 3 line, let alone having 2 of our centers chasing guys on the perimeter at the same time.They should never play together and I’m pretty sure they won’t.
 

Seton75

All-Conference
Jun 3, 2001
36,365
2,499
113
Not feasible at all. Ball movement would expose them on defense and Creighton might set a record for 3PT attempts.
Certainly not against Creighton.

I am less sure there is no chance they can play together in a special circumstance or 2, like if 2 bigs without outside games are hurting us.
 
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jack 1970

Sophomore
Feb 12, 2022
236
182
43
If we had three healthy centers, it might be worth a try. But Hines and Godswill are not fully healthy. I worry about foul trouble also.
 
Jun 3, 2001
217
279
63
How feasible does the board think this would be?

Especially against a team like Marquette or Creighton this upcoming Sunday with questionable bigs - could we tandem the two and play old school bully ball with Hines at the high post?
not good at all against a "5 out" team like Creighton I don't think
 
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HallLine69

Heisman
Aug 24, 2001
10,397
10,563
112
How feasible does the board think this would be?

Especially against a team like Marquette or Creighton this upcoming Sunday with questionable bigs - could we tandem the two and play old school bully ball with Hines at the high post?
With all due respect, it makes zero sense. They are perfect complements to each other right now...Hines learning as Payne carries the load. Ten fouls to wor with. Putting them on the floor together is counter-productive. Hines is not ready/able to play 30 minutes.

IMHO it's best we leave well enough alone. The current approach is working quite well.
 

JTSHU

Senior
Feb 9, 2015
491
401
63
Unless we play a team with 2 classic bigs. Def wont happen against creighton. Need to stay agile. I worry about CU with how many 3s they take and make. Gotta rebound those misses, close out and stay on the ground. We like to double and overhelp on D. If they get us scrambling well be in trouble. Do we play straight up with little to no help, or does the help fake the help and pull back. Our wings cant help to too much and fade off the 3 pt shooters. This will be interesting.
 

PirateBlue08

Junior
Jul 25, 2025
327
353
63
Maybe in a very unique and special situational spot against a team like Michigan with a monster front line if they were decimating us inside and on the boards.

But still I'd think a healthy Ehrierene might be better off along with either Hines or Payne just because he probably is more mobile and athletic, thus better guarding the three.

He's just so limited offensively we would need to have a strong inside-out game (which I've not seen us be) or a strong drive and kick team (which I was hoping we'd be this season with Clark, who theoretically can drive at will and should be able to beat just about anyone off the dribble, but we haven't really been great at that either).
 

Gohall129

Sophomore
Feb 24, 2022
130
121
42
Not against Creighton, but 100% against Marquette, possibly at times against St John’s, Nova, Georgetown and DePaul.
 
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Wolf11642

Freshman
Apr 23, 2023
61
53
18
Let me rephrase this - how about against a team like Marquette with Gold at the 4 just standing in the corner and with no inside presence to match either Payne or Hines. Payne could definitely stay with Gold on the perimeter
 

Anon1764447877

Redshirt
Nov 29, 2025
1
1
3
In certain scenarios I don’t hate the idea. Has the be the right matchup like you said. Can never occur in the first half to see how the fouls shake out. And defensively you HAVE to play zone.

That being said, we’re not at the experimenting point of the season anymore. But I like the “food for thought”
 
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Bud Boomer

All-Conference
Dec 24, 2007
602
1,716
93
Can’t be done. No spacing. It’s the same problem (albeit to a much much lesser degree) that Purdue faced with Trevion Williams and Zach Edey. Painter full on platooned two of the best players in college basketball because spacing is that important.
 

TheHall87

Senior
Jun 3, 2001
439
628
93
Against a team like Creighton you would might more likely to see a smaller lineup given the amount of emphasis they place on the perimeter offensively.

Their big can and will shoot the three effectively and I'm not sure how much you want Payne and Hines chasing him around the floor.

While I don't think it will be a default line-up, I could see minutes for Rivera, Fisher and three guards together.
 
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walnuter

Redshirt
Jun 3, 2001
13
2
3
Not feasible at all. Ball movement would expose them on defense and Creighton might set a record for 3PT attempts.
Certainly not against Creighton.

I am less sure there is no chance they can play together in a special circumstance or 2, like if 2 bigs without outside games are hurting us.
Unless we play a team with 2 classic bigs. Def wont happen against creighton. Need to stay agile. I worry about CU with how many 3s they take and make. Gotta rebound those misses, close out and stay on the ground. We like to double and overhelp on D. If they get us scrambling well be in trouble. Do we play straight up with little to no help, or does the help fake the help and pull back. Our wings cant help to too much and fade off the 3 pt shooters. This will be interesting.
 

Fishjam

All-Conference
Mar 27, 2016
652
2,251
93
Against Creighton you can't do it. They play too fast, pass too well and space the floor with precision. Every player on their team is an outside threat except for Owen Freeman who is a classic paint Center but he's only averaging 12 minutes per game over the last 5 games.

6'8 235 lb Jasen Green is more of an inside-playing PF/C who has outside shooting ability, He's 9 for 23 (39.1%) from 3 so its definitely a part of his game that needs to be respected but he's probably the guy I'd put Payne/Hines on as he takes 70% of his shots in the paint or at the rim.

6'10" 235 lb Isaac Traudt is their other Big and leads the team in 3-pointers made (30 for 77, 39%). He is the poster-child for today's analytical game. He only shoots 3s and layups. 85% of his attempts are from 3 and the rest are at the rim. He's a better version of Ben Gold, gets a lot of pick and pops and dives to the rim. I'd put Fisher and Rivera on him.

If Freeman and Green were in the game together you could try Hines & Payne but I don't think it's a good idea.

We are a defense that strives on pressure and switching on the perimeter and throwing one of our Bigs out there without practicing it wouldn't be effective. I also think our offense would be out of synch, hurt our spacing and it could put our Bigs in potential foul trouble. Would obviously help our rebounding and our blocked shots but I don't think its something we should experiment with now.

Down the road if all 3 of our Bigs are healthy and playing well, you could experiment with it in practice but i think we just have to keep working with Fisher, Rivera and Dar to get more out of the 4 spot.
 

Piratz

All-Conference
Mar 24, 2004
1,308
2,566
113
Let me rephrase this - how about against a team like Marquette with Gold at the 4 just standing in the corner and with no inside presence to match either Payne or Hines. Payne could definitely stay with Gold on the perimeter
That's even worse, IMO. Gold carved us up. If we had them out there together the quick forwards from those teams would've run around them.

On the other side, there's a common reason Payne went off against Providence and Marquette but struggled against Villanova.
 

Seton75

All-Conference
Jun 3, 2001
36,365
2,499
113
Obviously you cant do it against a finesse team like cu, or mu. But if a team still exists that is a power team and has guys who are big and tough and play in the paint, after they beat up our small pfs for a while, you gotta give it a try. Maybe that opponent only exists in my memory. It we played Mourning and Mutumbo it might be worth considering...
 

HALL85

Heisman
Jul 5, 2001
29,812
10,939
113
The
Obviously you cant do it against a finesse team like cu, or mu. But if a team still exists that is a power team and has guys who are big and tough and play in the paint, after they beat up our small pfs for a while, you gotta give it a try. Maybe that opponent only exists in my memory. It we played Mourning and Mutumbo it might be worth considering...
We haven’t played one yet and I don’t see any on the remaining schedule. The days of Artis Gilmore and Pembrrok Burrows is behind us.
 

NIL BAD

Junior
Aug 15, 2025
297
256
63
I never understood the "can't do it" mentality. Why are we always playing catch up & conceding to other team's strengths? Try it & find out. They are obviously two of our 5 best players; if not our two best.
 

Seton75

All-Conference
Jun 3, 2001
36,365
2,499
113
The

We haven’t played one yet and I don’t see any on the remaining schedule. The days of Artis Gilmore and Pembrrok Burrows is behind us.
yes. today they would tell kareem to work on his three. but if we play a team that is
pounding us on the boards and has 2 power players who play by the basket, as basketball was once played, we could do it too.

The new way hoops is played bothers me almost as much as nil and 4 schools in 4 yrs.
 

Section112

Senior
Feb 4, 2003
318
732
93
Defensively having quick guards and wings is what makes us go with the one big blocking the ball. A lot of our blocks come from pressuring the ball so well with our guards and athletic wings. Once someone gets to the basket, they are so focused on not giving up the ball to the guard or wing pressuring them, the big has an easy task to block the shot. With another big on the floor our ball pressure defense won't work as well and our offense runs so much better when we are defending and getting steals.

And what some of the other posters said about our offensive spacing - having two bigs on the court at the same time, especially bigs that are not 3 pt shooters makes no sense. Our bigs could roam the perimeter and teams will leave them alone because they are not a threat to shoot until they get into the paint which will then kill any spacing we have and make things harder for the guards and wings to get to the hoop. If our bigs were good 3 pt shooters maybe, but losing the defensive pressure we place on other teams with our guards/wings makes the suggestion moot in my opinion. It's not how this team is built.
 

HALL85

Heisman
Jul 5, 2001
29,812
10,939
113
yes. today they would tell kareem to work on his three. but if we play a team that is
pounding us on the boards and has 2 power players who play by the basket, as basketball was once played, we could do it too.
I understand but that team doesn’t exist on our schedule.
The new way hoops is played bothers me almost as much as nil and 4 schools in 4 yrs.
No argument there. Some of my favorite players to watch at that position…Charles Oakley, Dave DeBusschere, Gus Johnson, Dennis Rodman, Kurt Rambis….and yes Jerry Walker.
 

Seton75

All-Conference
Jun 3, 2001
36,365
2,499
113
Basketball has been played successfully with 2 power players who stayed by the hoop. (We act like it stopped in the 1920s. We need to stop calling the 4 a PF. Or at least change the P from Power to Positionless.)

Some coach may decide that punching his opponents in the mouth with his 2 bigs will work for a while. And if they do it against us and they score ten in a row in the paint, we may want to punch back.
 

Halldan

All-American
Staff member
Jan 1, 2003
183,593
5,407
113
The problem is 2 or 3.

Play power BB inside and often your reward is 2 points.

Space the floor with high quality shooters and your reward is 3 points.
 
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HALL85

Heisman
Jul 5, 2001
29,812
10,939
113
Basketball has been played successfully with 2 power players who stayed by the hoop. (We act like it stopped in the 1920s. We need to stop calling the 4 a PF. Or at least change the P from Power to Positionless.)

Some coach may decide that punching his opponents in the mouth with his 2 bigs will work for a while. And if they do it against us and they score ten in a row in the paint, we may want to punch back.
I’m not sure what you’re arguing about here. We have not faced a team with two bigs as you’ve described and there is not one team on the remaining schedule that does.

In the event they make the NCAA and face such a team, Sha will have an answer. Feel free to suggest what team has that profile. In the meantime, Sha’s job is to win games, not try stuff just in case.
 

Seton75

All-Conference
Jun 3, 2001
36,365
2,499
113
The problem is 2 or 3.

Play power BB inside and often your reward is 2 points.

Space the floor with high quality shooters and your reward is 3 points.
screw the stats. how about they consider that i hate the current 3 pt madness. hiw abiut we swap the 3 point shot for the red white and blue ball the ABA use.

40% x 3 = 60% x 2