Miami beat Miami last night. This ends the players v. coaching debate.

I'd argue that Miami overwhelmed Indiana with talent in many ways, as that DL wrecked IND and Mendoza for much of the game. But those back shoulder catches/throws from Indiana were insane.

jsrstsdawg said:

Coaching, coaching, coaching, coaching. You must have a very good QB but there wasn’t anything close to a first rounder on that field for Indiana while Miami has a half dozen or more. in the portal era you can no longer overwhelm teams with talent.

Mendoza will probably be the number one pick. There are 6-7 more who will play in the NFL but not first round pick's. Agree with the coaching comment's. Miami did not have poise, made a ton of mistake's.

HuskerDawg1005 said:

I'd argue that Miami overwhelmed Indiana with talent in many ways, as that DL wrecked IND and Mendoza for much of the game. But those back shoulder catches/throws from Indiana were insane.

Agree 💯. Players made plays. Mendoza was the difference. Somehow overcame a great performance by that Miami DL…and their corners for the most part.

I know both teams were made up of a ton of transfer players but it felt like Indiana was more of a TEAM than Miami. Maybe that is just a product of my own hidden beliefs but thats what I felt watching the game last night. Cignetti did a miraculous job of getting those guys to buy in

Coaching won last night BUT Miami absolutely dominated the LOS. What I didn't realise when I hear "how physical" IU was ....is that the use 6 OL alot. This isn't a long term successful formula as teams will adapt and run the Buddy Ryan 46 def. with 5 DL and counter this. Miami managed to dominate those 6 OL with an insane front 4. Miami giving up a blocked punt to a team know for blocking punts (7 in last 2 seasons prior to last night) is absolutely a coaching fail.

GaDawg_1 said:

Mendoza will probably be the number one pick. There are 6-7 more who will play in the NFL but not first round pick's. Agree with the coaching comment's. Miami did not have poise, made a ton of mistake's.

Yeah, got to love hyperbole. "There wasn't anything close to a first rounder on that field for Indiana"... other than the #1 overall pick this year. And it wouldn't surprise me to see some of their underclassmen elevate their draft stock as their careers progress either- happens all the time. Meanwhile, Miami will probably have 2-3 first rounders this year (Bain & Mauigoa for sure, not positive on any others). They also have some underclassmen that could fall into that category as well, but I doubt it will be as big of a disparity ultimately as OP suggests.

GaDawg_1 said:

Mendoza will probably be the number one pick. There are 6-7 more who will play in the NFL but not first round pick's. Agree with the coaching comment's. Miami did not have poise, made a ton of mistake's.

Sure, QBs and coaching. but we act like we must have a top 15 pick at LT, 2 animals at edge, Carter and Davis in the middle, and first round skill guys everywhere. in the end, QBs and coaching.

It is incredibly, incredibly hard to win a national championship without an elite QB. Do with that what you will

HuskerDawg1005 said:

I'd argue that Miami overwhelmed Indiana with talent in many ways, as that DL wrecked IND and Mendoza for much of the game. But those back shoulder catches/throws from Indiana were insane.

Sure, but they made a ton of mistakes and it cost them. If they just play a clean game they win. but execution, mistakes etc. generally correlates to coaching.

GaDawg_1 said:

Mendoza will probably be the number one pick. There are 6-7 more who will play in the NFL but not first round pick's. Agree with the coaching comment's. Miami did not have poise, made a ton of mistake's.

That’s where experience and maturity of 23 years old comes into play. Once a 2 star now is matured into a 4-5 star.

jsrstsdawg said:

Coaching, coaching, coaching, coaching. You must have a very good QB but there wasn’t anything close to a first rounder on that field for Indiana while Miami has a half dozen or more. in the portal era you can no longer overwhelm teams with talent.

16-0 requires great coaching and a great team.

klev21 said:

I know both teams were made up of a ton of transfer players but it felt like Indiana was more of a TEAM than Miami. Maybe that is just a product of my own hidden beliefs but thats what I felt watching the game last night. Cignetti did a miraculous job of getting those guys to buy in

I kinda said this yesterday. I felt Indiana was the better "team" and Miami had the better "athletes"

jsrstsdawg said:

Coaching, coaching, coaching, coaching. You must have a very good QB but there wasn’t anything close to a first rounder on that field for Indiana while Miami has a half dozen or more. in the portal era you can no longer overwhelm teams with talent.

Maybe. Let me see a team do what Indiana did without 45 dudes that were the equivalent of seniors or older. With the Covid extra year gone, I doubt anyone can assemble a roster like that again. So, they might not have had as much NFL talent as Miami, but the absolutely in terms of physical maturity designed to go toe to toe with Miami. Plus, do you think Miami is well coached? They literally have multiple brain farts every time they go out on the field. So good coaching beats out bad coaching, with similar talent. Not really some shocking result.

BurntJ said:

Coaching won last night BUT Miami absolutely dominated the LOS. What I didn't realise when I hear "how physical" IU was ....is that the use 6 OL alot. This isn't a long term successful formula as teams will adapt and run the Buddy Ryan 46 def. with 5 DL and counter this. Miami managed to dominate those 6 OL with an insane front 4. Miami giving up a blocked punt to a team know for blocking punts (7 in last 2 seasons prior to last night) is absolutely a coaching fail.

He is taking advantage of modern football. People don’t the personnel to run that defense any longer.

Everyone loves to make this either/or argument. It requires both. We had an ELITE staff to go with all the elite talent in 2021/22.

scottmac1972 said:

Maybe. Let me see a team do what Indiana did without 45 dudes that were the equivalent of seniors or older. With the Covid extra year gone, I doubt anyone can assemble a roster like that again. So, they might not have had as much NFL talent as Miami, but the absolutely in terms of physical maturity designed to go toe to toe with Miami. Plus, do you think Miami is well coached? They literally have multiple brain farts every time they go out on the field. So good coaching beats out bad coaching, with similar talent. Not really some shocking result.

I agree but Michigan was somewhat similar. That was the least talented team to win a natty in a long time. I think Miami significantly improved its coordinators - especially DC - which lead to a lot of their success but over all struggle in the coaching department. but great coaching, with significantly less “talent”, beat less than great coaching.

HacksawDawg said:

Everyone loves to make this either/or argument. It requires both. We had an ELITE staff to go with all the elite talent in 2021/22.

The question has never been one or the other but which is more important. I don’t think it’s a question any longer.

Miami is coached by a big dumbasș goomba, it's not surprising they lost. In fact, the biggest surprise of the entire CFB season (more so than Indiana winning the NC) is Cristobal miraculously getting his team to the playoff & actually advancing. He's an awful HC.

dogwoodmaple said:

It is incredibly, incredibly hard to win a national championship without an elite QB. Do with that what you will

Who was Ohio State’s QB last year? He was not elite.

Boom MFer Dawg said:

16-0 requires great coaching and a great team.

Sure but it didn’t require elite talent (other than at QB). we lose and people say - well, we just don’t have _______________ (fill in the blank with a position group that is no longer filled with first round guys etc.). Indiana (and Michigan to an extent) showed that is no longer an excuse.

Charlie Becker at WR for Indiana is legit, and will play in the NFL. I would agree that IU is exceptionally well coached. Watching their blocking schemes, and also putting WR’s in motion to have 3 on 2 is coaching. They have done this all year.

mikedawg9903 said:

Who was Ohio State’s QB last year? He was not elite.

Neither was Michigans QB, it takes elite defense and OL and some playmakers. We have proven that ourselves and it's true most years.

mikedawg9903 said:

Who was Ohio State’s QB last year? He was not elite.

Will Howard 2024, national rankings Completion % (2nd) Passing efficiency rating (3rd) Yards per play (4th) TDs (4th) Yards per attempt (5th) in what world is that not elite? Way too many people think elite college QB = elite pro prospect. It’s a completely different position.

orangeisgay said:

Neither was Michigans QB, it takes elite defense and OL and some playmakers. We have proven that ourselves and it's true most years.

Right. You don’t need an elite QB to win a natty. You just need a steady performer who minimizes mistakes and a good cast around him.