Uncanny how similar Payne & Hines stats are over 10 games

[Fishjam]

One's a Senior from a Low-Major and the other a freshman with a big-time future but they have combined to give us quality play at the 5 that we lacked last year. It seems that at least 1 of them has contributed big in each game but its shocking to look at how similar their Overall stats are.

Through 10 games, they have taken and made the exact same number of shots. Both are 30 for 49 from the Field for 61.2%. Their shot breakdown is also identical. They are each 24 for 35 at the rim for 68.6%, they are each 5 for 13 in the paint for 38.6%. They are each 1 for 1 on shots outside of the paint with Payne making an 11-foot 1-hander from the baseline and Hines making a left-handed hook shot from 12-feet. Hines as 1 more overall point then Payne as he's made 11 Free Throws to Payne's 10.

Their Offensive Rebounding percentage is both and identical 14.4%, Hines is slightly better at Defensive Rebounding at 20.7% to 19.6%. Their Minutes played are similar (195-178) their Offensive Ratings are 124.2 & 126.0, their Usage is very similar. Its uncanny. Hines has started to pull away in Block Rate where he still leads the Nation at 17.3% while Payne is 27th in the Nation at 11.1%. Payne gets a lot more Steals than Hines (12-3).

Both Bigs have been excellent and together they are giving us 14.1 points - 11.1 Rebounds & 3.9 Blocks per game.

 

[Hall84]

Just need to get Payne to shoot free throws as well as Hines.

 

[Seton75]

One's a Senior from a Low-Major and the other a freshman with a big-time future but they have combined to give us quality play at the 5 that we lacked last year. It seems that at least 1 of them has contributed big in each game but its shocking to look at how similar their Overall stats are.

Through 10 games, they have taken and made the exact same number of shots. Both are 30 for 49 from the Field for 61.2%. Their shot breakdown is also identical. They are each 24 for 35 at the rim for 68.6%, they are each 5 for 13 in the paint for 38.6%. They are each 1 for 1 on shots outside of the paint with Payne making an 11-foot 1-hander from the baseline and Hines making a left-handed hook shot from 12-feet. Hines as 1 more overall point then Payne as he's made 11 Free Throws to Payne's 10.

Their Offensive Rebounding percentage is both and identical 14.4%, Hines is slightly better at Defensive Rebounding at 20.7% to 19.6%. Their Minutes played are similar (195-178) their Offensive Ratings are 124.2 & 126.0, their Usage is very similar. Its uncanny. Hines has started to pull away in Block Rate where he still leads the Nation at 17.3% while Payne is 27th in the Nation at 11.1%. Payne gets a lot more Steals than Hines (12-3).

Both Bigs have been excellent and together they are giving us 14.1 points - 11.1 Rebounds & 3.9 Blocks per game.

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that is kind of amazing. both are real good for us.

 

[Piratz]

Payne had been a pleasant surprise to me.

Hines is fun to watch. Star potential. You can see the difference between them offensively, especially in the 3 P4 games with legit front courts.

Need them both. A good combo.

 

[Fishjam]

Hines is definitely more gifted than Payne. He's shown glimpses of his footwork and agility and comfort shooting with either hand. I believe that Hines is not quite 100% with the groin and hamstring issues. As well as he's played I believe he has another level of explosiveness he hasn't shown yet. He only has 6 dunks (Payne has 10) which are a big part of his game.

 

[BobbieSolo]

@Fishjam you are by far the best poster here. Killer insights almost daily. @Bud Boomer is stellar too.

 

[shu67]

Payne is playing with an injured hand so that is a factor too.

 

[Fishjam]

@Fishjam you are by far the best poster here. Killer insights almost daily. @Bud Boomer is stellar too.

Thanks @BobbieSolo . I enjoy the interaction with you and all of our diehards here and agree that @Bud Boomer is stellar. I'm just pumped that we have a team and staff performing the way we expect this year. Makes it a lot more fun to dig into the players performance and the numbers behind them.

 

[Pirates94]

Payne had been a pleasant surprise to me.

Hines is fun to watch. Star potential. You can see the difference between them offensively, especially in the 3 P4 games with legit front courts.

Need them both. A good combo.

Hines has an offensive game. Payne is dunk or nothing.

 

[HALL85]

Hines has an offensive game. Payne is dunk or nothing.

Payne moves well without the ball. He’s made some nice plays taking a pass while moving and converting. Hines is more of a traditional post center and has shown great footwork.

 

[Fishjam]

Payne moves well without the ball. He’s made some nice plays taking a pass while moving and converting. Hines is more of a traditional post center and has shown great footwork.

Agree. Payne's game is built on athleticism and agility. His offense is catching the ball and flushing it or putbacks off the offensive glass. But he also has a good knack of where to be on the floor at the right time. Several times he's boxed out his man so he can't help on a Pirate guard driving to the basket, something Bediako and Obiago had instincts for also. He's also a threat to beat his man down the floor every possession.

Hines has very nimble feet for a "paint beast" as he calls himself. He is very good finishing with either hand and uses his big body well to ward off defenders. Shoots FTs well and think he can expand his game out as a shooter in the 10-14 foot range eventually. If he continues to develop and can get/stay healthy, sky is the limit.

 

[hallwins]

Agree. Payne's game is built on athleticism and agility. His offense is catching the ball and flushing it or putbacks off the offensive glass. But he also has a good knack of where to be on the floor at the right time. Several times he's boxed out his man so he can't help on a Pirate guard driving to the basket, something Bediako and Obiago had instincts for also. He's also a threat to beat his man down the floor every possession.

Hines has very nimble feet for a "paint beast" as he calls himself. He is very good finishing with either hand and uses his big body well to ward off defenders. Shoots FTs well and think he can expand his game out as a shooter in the 10-14 foot range eventually. If he continues to develop and can get/stay healthy, sky is the limit.

Hines has great hands.
Payne has good hands as well.
Great catch on the pick and roll 2nd half K State for the dunk

 

[HALL85]

Agree. Payne's game is built on athleticism and agility. His offense is catching the ball and flushing it or putbacks off the offensive glass. But he also has a good knack of where to be on the floor at the right time. Several times he's boxed out his man so he can't help on a Pirate guard driving to the basket, something Bediako and Obiago had instincts for also. He's also a threat to beat his man down the floor every possession.

Hines has very nimble feet for a "paint beast" as he calls himself. He is very good finishing with either hand and uses his big body well to ward off defenders. Shoots FTs well and think he can expand his game out as a shooter in the 10-14 foot range eventually. If he continues to develop and can get/stay healthy, sky is the limit.

I’ve been impressed with Hines development as well, especially considering his groin/hamstring issues. He’s much further ahead than expected.

 

[TheHall87]

Agree. Payne's game is built on athleticism and agility. His offense is catching the ball and flushing it or putbacks off the offensive glass. But he also has a good knack of where to be on the floor at the right time. Several times he's boxed out his man so he can't help on a Pirate guard driving to the basket, something Bediako and Obiago had instincts for also. He's also a threat to beat his man down the floor every possession.

Hines has very nimble feet for a "paint beast" as he calls himself. He is very good finishing with either hand and uses his big body well to ward off defenders. Shoots FTs well and think he can expand his game out as a shooter in the 10-14 foot range eventually. If he continues to develop and can get/stay healthy, sky is the limit.

If Hines can develop a face the basket game from 15 feet and in on offense, he will make a lot of money for himself.

 

[Bud Boomer]

@Fishjam you are by far the best poster here. Killer insights almost daily. @Bud Boomer is stellar too.

Thanks @BobbieSolo . I enjoy the interaction with you and all of our diehards here and agree that @Bud Boomer is stellar. I'm just pumped that we have a team and staff performing the way we expect this year. Makes it a lot more fun to dig into the players performance and the numbers behind them.

Man, kind words from two absolute legends of the site. Appreciate it guys, the feelings are mutual!

 

[Piratz]

Agree. Payne's game is built on athleticism and agility. His offense is catching the ball and flushing it or putbacks off the offensive glass. But he also has a good knack of where to be on the floor at the right time. Several times he's boxed out his man so he can't help on a Pirate guard driving to the basket, something Bediako and Obiago had instincts for also. He's also a threat to beat his man down the floor every possession.

Hines has very nimble feet for a "paint beast" as he calls himself. He is very good finishing with either hand and uses his big body well to ward off defenders. Shoots FTs well and think he can expand his game out as a shooter in the 10-14 foot range eventually. If he continues to develop and can get/stay healthy, sky is the limit.

The one issue we have is with the aggressive defense we play teams that get them on the move have been able to get them into foul trouble. Not shocking for centers, but it's happened a few times now to both of them against P4 type athletes. Payne is at 6.0 FC/40 mins, by far the highest of his career. He rung up 11 fouls in just 58 minutes against Kansas State, USC, and NC State (4, 4, 3). Hines at 5.6 per 40 and committed 8 fouls in those 3 games in 52 minutes (4, 2, 2).

We've been caught a few times already with both on the bench and Rivera in there.

Bears watching until Erheriene returns. I still also think Suemnick should help us; he played nearly 15 MPG in the Big 12 the past two seasons up front.

 

[Piratz]

@Fishjam you are by far the best poster here. Killer insights almost daily. @Bud Boomer is stellar too.

Seconded... Both are must-read posters and leave me more informed regularly.

 

[Bud Boomer]

The one issue we have is with the aggressive defense we play teams that get them on the move have been able to get them into foul trouble. Not shocking for centers, but it's happened a few times now to both of them against P4 type athletes. Payne is at 6.0 FC/40 mins, by far the highest of his career. He rung up 11 fouls in just 58 minutes against Kansas State, USC, and NC State (4, 4, 3). Hines at 5.6 per 40 and committed 8 fouls in those 3 games in 52 minutes (4, 2, 2).

We've been caught a few times already with both on the bench and Rivera in there.

Bears watching until Erheriene returns. I still also think Suemnick should help us; he played nearly 15 MPG in the Big 12 the past two seasons up front.

With Payne and Hines playing the way they are, I wonder if GW returns even if he’s able to get healthy. He might think he’s better off saving the eligibility.

 

[Halldan]

Doubtful. When he gets the medical OK he will be playing.

 

[Seton75]

When Payne got his third foul a minute into the second half, that was tough to see. till a minute later hines fouls a guy 20 ft from the hoop. made me nervous. we can use the other 5 fouls for sure

 

[Halldan]

Rivera is being put into a very difficult situation as the 2nd backup center. A position he is ill equipped to handle.

I have a feeling that down the road, don't know when, Godswill be be back.

 

[Piratz]

Rivera is being put into a very difficult situation as the 2nd backup center. A position he is ill equipped to handle.

I have a feeling that down the road, don't know when, Godswill be be back.

And I’m not sure Rivera has the speed or athleticism for this level to begin with even at his natural position, but hopefully he keeps improving.

 

[Halldan]

Speed is not his game and if he had to play major minutes he would get exposed. But in short burst when the need arises I have no issues until he shows me otherwise that he can be a 10th/11th player off the bench who wouldn't hurt you at the 4.

 

[Pirates94]

Agree. Payne's game is built on athleticism and agility. His offense is catching the ball and flushing it or putbacks off the offensive glass. But he also has a good knack of where to be on the floor at the right time. Several times he's boxed out his man so he can't help on a Pirate guard driving to the basket, something Bediako and Obiago had instincts for also. He's also a threat to beat his man down the floor every possession.

Hines has very nimble feet for a "paint beast" as he calls himself. He is very good finishing with either hand and uses his big body well to ward off defenders. Shoots FTs well and think he can expand his game out as a shooter in the 10-14 foot range eventually. If he continues to develop and can get/stay healthy, sky is the limit.

If he wants to get to NBA he’ll need to stretch his range out to 3pt range. Other than the Knicks With Robinson no one is drafting back to basket centers. He was a 2nd rounder.

 

[Pirates94]

The one issue we have is with the aggressive defense we play teams that get them on the move have been able to get them into foul trouble. Not shocking for centers, but it's happened a few times now to both of them against P4 type athletes. Payne is at 6.0 FC/40 mins, by far the highest of his career. He rung up 11 fouls in just 58 minutes against Kansas State, USC, and NC State (4, 4, 3). Hines at 5.6 per 40 and committed 8 fouls in those 3 games in 52 minutes (4, 2, 2).

We've been caught a few times already with both on the bench and Rivera in there.

Bears watching until Erheriene returns. I still also think Suemnick should help us; he played nearly 15 MPG in the Big 12 the past two seasons up front.

@Halldan what’s happening with these 2? Will either or both be back at summer point?

 

[Halldan]

Godswill has been practicing this week with the team. Should be back soon.

Suemnick????????

 

[radecicco]

If he wants to get to NBA he’ll need to stretch his range out to 3pt range. Other than the Knicks With Robinson no one is drafting back to basket centers. He was a 2nd rounder.

Geez, c’mon. We’re talking about a college freshman playing his 11th game. I don’t care about his NBA potential. We’re talking about college hoops. And there are plenty of traditional centers in the NBA, Toronto and Minnesota are two that come to mind.

 

[MBF68]

Glad we have both, but Hines is a stud. I hope he gets more pt as the BE season begins. Hope we can keep him.
In second half v. Rutgers he moved down the lane and fielded a tough low bounce pass and made the layup. TV guys commneted on what a skilled move it was. I immediately thought (endearingly).... of Ike.

 

[Halldan]

He's gonna cost between $1-2M, maybe more. And we MUST pay.

Imagine next season when he's in shape.

 

[Bud Boomer]

Pretty hard to overstate how good Hines has been so far. He's not at the level of the truly elite frosh nationally (Boozer, Peat, Steinbach, CW, Dybantsa, DP, etc.), but he's probably in the next grouping. He's the best BE freshman by a country mile.

Among All Freshman Nationally
1st in block percentage
15th in offensive rating
15th in defense rating
9th in total rebounding percentage

Among BE Freshmen
1st in block percentage
2nd in offensive rating
1st in defensive rating
1st in total rebounding percentage

Among All Big East Players
1st in block percentage
12th in offensive rating
2nd in defensive rating (Payne is 1st)
3rd in total rebounding percentage

 

[Seton75]

Pretty hard to overstate how good Hines has been so far. He's not at the level of the truly elite frosh nationally (Boozer, Peat, Steinbach, CW, Dybantsa, DP, etc.), but he's probably in the next grouping. He's the best BE freshman by a country mile.

Among All Freshman Nationally
1st in block percentage
15th in offensive rating
15th in defense rating
9th in total rebounding percentage

Among BE Freshmen
1st in block percentage
2nd in offensive rating
1st in defensive rating
1st in total rebounding percentage

Among All Big East Players
1st in block percentage
12th in offensive rating
2nd in defensive rating (Payne is 1st)
3rd in total rebounding percentage

WOW!!!!! Awesome